Sessen Doji story

Post by yelps
"Long, long ago there was a young man who lived in the Snow Mountains and
was called Sessen Doji. He gathered brackens and nuts to keep himself alive,
made garments of deerskin to clothe his body and quietly practiced the Way.
As he observed the world with care and attention, Sessen Doji came to
understand that nothing is permanent and everything changes, and that all
that is born is destined to die. This weary world is as fleeting as a flash
of lightning, as the morning dew that vanishes in the sun, as a lamp easily
blown out by the wind, or as the fragile leaves of the plantain that are so
readily broken.
No one can escape this transience. In the end, all must take the journey to
the Yellow Springs, the land of death. When we imagine the trip to the other
world, we sense utter darkness. There is no light from the sun, the moon, or
the stars; not even so much as a torch to illuminate the way. And along that
dark road, there is no one to keep you company. When one is in the saha
world, he is surrounded by parents and relatives, brothers and

sisters, wife

Post by yelps
and children, and retainers. Fathers may show lofty compassion, and mothers,
profound loving sympathy. Husband and wife may be as faithful as two shrimps
of the sea who vow to share the same hole and never to part

throughout life.

Post by yelps
Yet, though they push their pillows side by side and sport together under
the quilts embroidered with mandarin ducks,17 they can never be together on
that journey to the land of death. As you travel alone in darkness, who will
come to encourage you?
Though old and young alike dwell in the realm of uncertainty, it is part of
the natural order for the elderly to die first and the young to remain
awhile. Thus, even as we grieve, we can find some cause for

consolation.

Post by yelps
Sometimes, however, it is the old who remain and the young who die first. No
one feels more bitter resentment than a young child who dies before his
parents. No one despairs more deeply than parents who see their child
precede them in death. People live in this fleeting world where all is
uncertainty and impermanence, yet day and night they think only of how much
wealth they can amass in this life. From dawn to dusk they

concentrate on

Post by yelps
worldly affairs, and neither revere the Buddha nor take faith in the Law.
They ignore Buddhist practice and lack wisdom, idling their days away. And
when they die and are brought before the court of Emma, the king of hell,
what can they carry as provisions on the long journey through the threefold
world? What can they use as a boat or raft to ferry themselves across the
sea of the sufferings of birth and death to the land of Actual Reward or the
land of Tranquil Light?18 When one is deluded, it is as if he were dreaming.
And when one is enlightened, it is as if he had awakened. Thinking in this
way, Sessen Doji resolved to awake from the dream of the transient world and
to seek the reality of enlightenment. So he secluded himself in the
mountains and devoted himself to deep meditation, sweeping away the dust of
delusion in his single-minded pursuit of the Buddhist Law.
The god Taishaku (Indra) looked down from heaven and observed Sessen Doji
in the distance. He thought to himself, "Though the baby fish are many,
there are few that grow up to be big fish. Though the flowers of the mango
tree are many, there are few that turn into fruit. In like manner, there are
many people who set their hearts on enlightenment, but only a few who
continue their practice and in fact attain the true Way. The

aspiration for

Post by yelps
enlightenment in common mortals is often hindered by evil influences and
easily swayed by circumstances; though many warriors don armor, few go
without fear into battle. Let me go test this young man's faith." So saying,
Taishaku disguised himself as a demon and appeared at Sessen Doji's side.
At that time the Buddha had not yet made his appearance in the world, and
although Sessen Doji had sought everywhere for the Mahayana

teachings, he

Post by yelps
had been unable to learn anything of them. Just then he heard a faint voice
saying, "All is changeable, nothing is constant. This is the law of birth
and death." Sessen Doji looked all around in amazement, but there was no one
in sight except a demon standing nearby. In appearance it was fierce and
horrible; the hairs on its head were like flames and the teeth in its mouth
like swords, and its eyes were fixed on Sessen Doji in a furious glare. When
Sessen Doji saw this, he was not frightened in the least. He was so
overjoyed at the opportunity to hear something of the Buddhist

teaching that

Post by yelps
he did not even question it. He was like a calf separated from its mother
that hears the faint sound of her lowing. "Who spoke that verse? There must
be more!" he thought, and once more he searched all around, but still there
was no one to be seen. He wondered if it could have been the demon who
recited the verse. But on second thought that seemed impossible, since the
demon must have been born a demon in retribution for some evil act in the
past. The verse was certainly a teaching of the Buddha, and he was sure it
could never have come from the mouth of a lowly demon. But as there was no
one else about, he asked, "Was it you who preached that verse?" "Don't speak
to me!" replied the demon. "I've had nothing to eat for days. I'm starved,
exhausted, and almost out of my mind. I may have uttered some sort of
nonsense, but in my dazed condition I don't even know what it was."
"For me to hear only the first half of that verse," said Sessen Doji, "is
like seeing only half the moon or obtaining half a jewel. It must have been
you who spoke, so I beg you to teach me the remaining half." The demon
replied sarcastically, "You are already enlightened, so you should feel no
resentment even if you don't hear the rest of the verse. I'm dying of
starvation and haven't the strength to speak--say no more to me!"
"Could you teach me if you had something to eat?" asked Sessen Doji. "If I
had something to eat, I might be able to," said the demon. Elated, Sessen
Doji said, "Well then, what kind of food would you like?" But the demon
replied, "Ask no more. You will certainly be horrified when you hear what I
eat. Besides, you would never be able to provide it."
Yet Sessen Doji was insistent. "If you will just tell me what you want, I
will try to find it for you." The demon answered, "I eat only the tender
flesh of humans and drink only their warm blood. I fly through the air far
and wide in search of food, but people are protected by the Buddhas and gods
so that even though I want to kill them, I cannot. I can only kill and eat
those whom the Buddhas and gods have forsaken."
Hearing this, Sessen Doji decided to give his own body for the sake of the
Law, so that he could hear the entire verse. "You food is right here," he
said. "You need look no further. Since I am still alive, my flesh is warm,
and my blood has had no time to turn cold. Therefore, I ask you to teach me
the rest of the verse, and in exchange, I will offer you my body." Then the
demon grew furious and demanded, "Who could believe your words? After I've
taught you the rest of the verse, who can I call on as a witness to make you
keep your promise?"
Sessen Doji replied, "This body of mine is mortal. But if I give my life for
the Law, casting away this vile body which would otherwise die in vain, in
the next life I will certainly be able to attain enlightenment and become a
Buddha. I will receive a pure and wonderful body. It will be like throwing
away a piece of crockery and receiving a precious vessel in exchange. I call
upon Bonten and Taishaku, the Four Heavenly Kings, and all the

Buddhas and

Post by yelps
bodhisattvas of the ten directions to be my witnesses. I could not possibly
deceive you before them."
The demon, somewhat mollified, said, "If what you say is true, I will teach
you the rest of the verse." Sessen Doji was overjoyed and, removing his
deerskin garment, spread it out for the demon to sit upon while he preached.
Then Sessen Doji knelt, bowed his head to the ground and placed his palms
together in reverence, saying, "All I ask is that you teach me the rest of
the verse." Thus he offered his heartfelt respect to the demon. The demon,

"Extinguishing

Post by yelps
the cycle of birth and death, one enters the joy of nirvana." The moment he
heard this, Sessen Doji was filled with joy, and his reverence for the verse
was boundless. Resolved to remember it even until the next life, he repeated
it over and over again and etched it deep in his heart.
He pondered, thinking to himself, "I rejoice that this verse, [though it
came from a demon,] is no different from the teaching of the Buddha, but at
the same time, I lament that I alone have heard it and that I am unable to
transmit it to others." Thereupon he inscribed the stanza on stones, cliff
faces and the trees along the road, and he prayed that those who might later
pass by would see it, understand its meaning and finally enter the true Way.
This done, he climbed a tall tree and threw himself down before the demon.
But before he had reached the ground, the demon quickly resumed his original
form as Taishaku, caught Sessen Doji and gently placed him on a level spot.
Bowing before him reverently, Taishaku said, "In order to test you, I held
back the Buddha's holy teaching for a time, causing anguish in the heart of
a bodhisattva. I hope you will forgive my fault and save me without fail in
my next life."
Then all of the heavenly beings gathered around to praise Sessen Doji,
saying, "How wonderful! He is truly a bodhisattva." Thus, by casting away
his body to listen to half a verse, Sessen Doji was able to transcend the
realm of birth and death for twelve kalpas. This story appears in the
Nirvana Sutra.
In the past Sessen Doji was willing to give his life in order to hear but
half a verse. How much more thankful should we be to hear a chapter or even
a volume of the Lotus Sutra! How can we ever repay such a blessing? Indeed,
if you care about your next life, you should make Sessen Doji your example.
Even though you may be too poor to offer anything of value, if the
opportunity should arise to give up your life for the sake of the Buddhist
Law, you should offer your life in order to study Buddhism.
This body of ours in the end will become nothing more than the soil of the
hills and fields. Therefore, it is useless to begrudge your life, for though
you may wish to, you cannot cling to it forever. Even people who live a long
time rarely live beyond the age of one hundred. And all the events of a
lifetime are like the dream one dreams in a brief nap. Though one may have
been fortunate enough to be born as a human being and may perhaps have even
renounced the world in order to seek the truth, if he fails to study
Buddhism and to refute its slanderers but simply spends his time in idleness
and chatter, then he is no better than an animal dressed in priestly robes.
He may call himself a priest and earn his livelihood as such, but in no way
does he deserve to be regarded as a true priest. He is nothing but a thief
who has stolen the name of priest. How shameful and frightening!
In the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra there is a passage which
reads, "We do not hold our own lives dear. We value only the supreme Way."19
Another passage from the essential teaching reads, "They do not begrudge
their lives."20 The Nirvana Sutra states, "One's body is

insignificant while

Post by yelps
the Law is supreme. One should give his life in order to propagate the
Law."21 Thus both the theoretical and essential teachings of the Lotus
Sutra, as well as the Nirvana Sutra, all indicate that one should give one's
life to spread the Law. It is a grave offense to go against these
admonitions, and though one cannot see it with the eye, the error piles up
until it sends one plummeting to hell. It is like heat or cold, which has no
shape or form that can be seen with the eye. Yet in winter the cold comes to
attack trees and grasses, men and beasts, and in summer the heat comes to
torment people and animals."
--
!!!!!!!Safety for the Masses!!!!!!!!!
www.yelpsastound.com
My Archives are Private © 2004 DCole
Permission to read, copy or archive
this message is neither given nor implied.

yelps

2005-01-30 19:20:29 UTC

hi yelps...
i know why julian is posting new threads that have nothing to do with
tibetan buddhism here, but i don't know why you are. could you tell me?
love,
pema
"As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the
demand." Josh Billings

Buddhism is one thing. To say "Tibetan" Buddhism, is placing the name of a
Country before the word Buddhism. To fragment into sects that oppose each
other is non-buddhist in spirit.

To think that "Tibetan" Buddhism does not have the Lotus Sutra, where this
story of Sessen Doji comes from, is caused by studying the wrong teachers.

I too was at one time a "Tibetan" Buddhist or a "Zen" Buddhist. Both of
these fall into the category of "Middle Mahayana." while the Lotus and
Nirvana Sutra are "Upper Mahayana" All of the Lotus Sutra and Nirvana Sutra,
except for the core teaching which is "hidden between the lines," of the
16th Chapter of the Lotus Teaching, is called provisional teachings.

What I wonder, about you, is when you see this post on Sessen Doji, do you
actually read it carefully first, or do you just quickly write up this reply
indicating your aversion?

dc

sisters, wife

throughout life.

consolation.

concentrate on

aspiration for

teachings, he

teaching that

Buddhas and

"Extinguishing

insignificant while

yelps

2005-01-30 19:29:01 UTC

Post by R***@aol.com
hi yelps...
i know why julian is posting new threads that have nothing to do with
tibetan buddhism here, but i don't know why you are. could you tell me?
love,
pema
"As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the
demand." Josh Billings
Buddhism is one thing. To say "Tibetan" Buddhism, is placing the name of
a Country before the word Buddhism. To fragment into sects that oppose
each other is non-buddhist in spirit.
To think that "Tibetan" Buddhism does not have the Lotus Sutra, where this
story of Sessen Doji comes from, is caused by studying the wrong
teachers.
I too was at one time a "Tibetan" Buddhist or a "Zen" Buddhist. Both of
these fall into the category of "Middle Mahayana." while the Lotus and
Nirvana Sutra are "Upper Mahayana" All of the Lotus Sutra and Nirvana
Sutra, except for the core teaching which is "hidden between the lines,"
of the 16th Chapter of the Lotus Teaching, is called provisional
teachings.
What I wonder, about you, is when you see this post on Sessen Doji, do you
actually read it carefully first, or do you just quickly write up this
reply indicating your aversion?
dc

Post by yelps
"Long, long ago there was a young man who lived in the Snow Mountains

and

Post by yelps
was called Sessen Doji. He gathered brackens and nuts to keep himself

alive,

Post by yelps
made garments of deerskin to clothe his body and quietly practiced

the Way.

Post by yelps
As he observed the world with care and attention, Sessen Doji came to
understand that nothing is permanent and everything changes, and that

all

Post by yelps
that is born is destined to die. This weary world is as fleeting as a

flash

Post by yelps
of lightning, as the morning dew that vanishes in the sun, as a lamp

easily

Post by yelps
blown out by the wind, or as the fragile leaves of the plantain that

are so

Post by yelps
readily broken.
No one can escape this transience. In the end, all must take the

journey to

Post by yelps
the Yellow Springs, the land of death. When we imagine the trip to

the other

Post by yelps
world, we sense utter darkness. There is no light from the sun, the

moon, or

Post by yelps
the stars; not even so much as a torch to illuminate the way. And

along that

Post by yelps
dark road, there is no one to keep you company. When one is in the

saha

Post by yelps
world, he is surrounded by parents and relatives, brothers and

sisters, wife

Post by yelps
and children, and retainers. Fathers may show lofty compassion, and

mothers,

Post by yelps
profound loving sympathy. Husband and wife may be as faithful as two

shrimps

Post by yelps
of the sea who vow to share the same hole and never to part

throughout life.

Post by yelps
Yet, though they push their pillows side by side and sport together

under

Post by yelps
the quilts embroidered with mandarin ducks,17 they can never be

together on

Post by yelps
that journey to the land of death. As you travel alone in darkness,

who will

Post by yelps
come to encourage you?
Though old and young alike dwell in the realm of uncertainty, it is

part of

Post by yelps
the natural order for the elderly to die first and the young to

remain

Post by yelps
awhile. Thus, even as we grieve, we can find some cause for

consolation.

Post by yelps
Sometimes, however, it is the old who remain and the young who die

first. No

Post by yelps
one feels more bitter resentment than a young child who dies before

his

Post by yelps
parents. No one despairs more deeply than parents who see their child
precede them in death. People live in this fleeting world where all

Post by yelps
uncertainty and impermanence, yet day and night they think only of

how much

Post by yelps
wealth they can amass in this life. From dawn to dusk they

concentrate on

Post by yelps
worldly affairs, and neither revere the Buddha nor take faith in the

Law.

Post by yelps
They ignore Buddhist practice and lack wisdom, idling their days

away. And

Post by yelps
when they die and are brought before the court of Emma, the king of

hell,

Post by yelps
what can they carry as provisions on the long journey through the

threefold

Post by yelps
world? What can they use as a boat or raft to ferry themselves across

the

Post by yelps
sea of the sufferings of birth and death to the land of Actual Reward

or the

Post by yelps
land of Tranquil Light?18 When one is deluded, it is as if he were

dreaming.

Post by yelps
And when one is enlightened, it is as if he had awakened. Thinking in

this

Post by yelps
way, Sessen Doji resolved to awake from the dream of the transient

world and

Post by yelps
to seek the reality of enlightenment. So he secluded himself in the
mountains and devoted himself to deep meditation, sweeping away the

dust of

Post by yelps
delusion in his single-minded pursuit of the Buddhist Law.
The god Taishaku (Indra) looked down from heaven and observed Sessen

Doji

Post by yelps
in the distance. He thought to himself, "Though the baby fish are

many,

Post by yelps
there are few that grow up to be big fish. Though the flowers of the

mango

Post by yelps
tree are many, there are few that turn into fruit. In like manner,

there are

Post by yelps
many people who set their hearts on enlightenment, but only a few who
continue their practice and in fact attain the true Way. The

aspiration for

Post by yelps
enlightenment in common mortals is often hindered by evil influences

and

Post by yelps
easily swayed by circumstances; though many warriors don armor, few

Post by yelps
without fear into battle. Let me go test this young man's faith." So

saying,

Post by yelps
Taishaku disguised himself as a demon and appeared at Sessen Doji's

side.

Post by yelps
At that time the Buddha had not yet made his appearance in the world,

and

Post by yelps
although Sessen Doji had sought everywhere for the Mahayana

teachings, he

Post by yelps
had been unable to learn anything of them. Just then he heard a faint

voice

Post by yelps
saying, "All is changeable, nothing is constant. This is the law of

birth

Post by yelps
and death." Sessen Doji looked all around in amazement, but there was

no one

Post by yelps
in sight except a demon standing nearby. In appearance it was fierce

and

Post by yelps
horrible; the hairs on its head were like flames and the teeth in its

mouth

Post by yelps
like swords, and its eyes were fixed on Sessen Doji in a furious

glare. When

Post by yelps
Sessen Doji saw this, he was not frightened in the least. He was so
overjoyed at the opportunity to hear something of the Buddhist

teaching that

Post by yelps
he did not even question it. He was like a calf separated from its

mother

Post by yelps
that hears the faint sound of her lowing. "Who spoke that verse?

There must

Post by yelps
be more!" he thought, and once more he searched all around, but still

there

Post by yelps
was no one to be seen. He wondered if it could have been the demon

who

Post by yelps
recited the verse. But on second thought that seemed impossible,

since the

Post by yelps
demon must have been born a demon in retribution for some evil act in

the

Post by yelps
past. The verse was certainly a teaching of the Buddha, and he was

sure it

Post by yelps
could never have come from the mouth of a lowly demon. But as there

was no

Post by yelps
one else about, he asked, "Was it you who preached that verse?"

"Don't speak

Post by yelps
to me!" replied the demon. "I've had nothing to eat for days. I'm

starved,

Post by yelps
exhausted, and almost out of my mind. I may have uttered some sort of
nonsense, but in my dazed condition I don't even know what it was."
"For me to hear only the first half of that verse," said Sessen Doji,

"is

Post by yelps
like seeing only half the moon or obtaining half a jewel. It must

have been

Post by yelps
you who spoke, so I beg you to teach me the remaining half." The

demon

Post by yelps
replied sarcastically, "You are already enlightened, so you should

feel no

Post by yelps
resentment even if you don't hear the rest of the verse. I'm dying of
starvation and haven't the strength to speak--say no more to me!"
"Could you teach me if you had something to eat?" asked Sessen Doji.

"If I

Post by yelps
had something to eat, I might be able to," said the demon. Elated,

Sessen

Post by yelps
Doji said, "Well then, what kind of food would you like?" But the

demon

Post by yelps
replied, "Ask no more. You will certainly be horrified when you hear

what I

Post by yelps
eat. Besides, you would never be able to provide it."
Yet Sessen Doji was insistent. "If you will just tell me what you

want, I

Post by yelps
will try to find it for you." The demon answered, "I eat only the

tender

Post by yelps
flesh of humans and drink only their warm blood. I fly through the

air far

Post by yelps
and wide in search of food, but people are protected by the Buddhas

and gods

Post by yelps
so that even though I want to kill them, I cannot. I can only kill

and eat

Post by yelps
those whom the Buddhas and gods have forsaken."
Hearing this, Sessen Doji decided to give his own body for the sake

of the

Post by yelps
Law, so that he could hear the entire verse. "You food is right

here," he

Post by yelps
said. "You need look no further. Since I am still alive, my flesh is

warm,

Post by yelps
and my blood has had no time to turn cold. Therefore, I ask you to

teach me

Post by yelps
the rest of the verse, and in exchange, I will offer you my body."

Then the

Post by yelps
demon grew furious and demanded, "Who could believe your words? After

I've

Post by yelps
taught you the rest of the verse, who can I call on as a witness to

make you

Post by yelps
keep your promise?"
Sessen Doji replied, "This body of mine is mortal. But if I give my

life for

Post by yelps
the Law, casting away this vile body which would otherwise die in

vain, in

Post by yelps
the next life I will certainly be able to attain enlightenment and

become a

Post by yelps
Buddha. I will receive a pure and wonderful body. It will be like

throwing

Post by yelps
away a piece of crockery and receiving a precious vessel in exchange.

I call

Post by yelps
upon Bonten and Taishaku, the Four Heavenly Kings, and all the

Buddhas and

Post by yelps
bodhisattvas of the ten directions to be my witnesses. I could not

possibly

Post by yelps
deceive you before them."
The demon, somewhat mollified, said, "If what you say is true, I will

teach

Post by yelps
you the rest of the verse." Sessen Doji was overjoyed and, removing

his

Post by yelps
deerskin garment, spread it out for the demon to sit upon while he

preached.

Post by yelps
Then Sessen Doji knelt, bowed his head to the ground and placed his

palms

Post by yelps
together in reverence, saying, "All I ask is that you teach me the

rest of

Post by yelps
the verse." Thus he offered his heartfelt respect to the demon. The

demon,
"Extinguishing

Post by yelps
the cycle of birth and death, one enters the joy of nirvana." The

moment he

Post by yelps
heard this, Sessen Doji was filled with joy, and his reverence for

the verse

Post by yelps
was boundless. Resolved to remember it even until the next life, he

repeated

Post by yelps
it over and over again and etched it deep in his heart.
He pondered, thinking to himself, "I rejoice that this verse, [though

Post by yelps
came from a demon,] is no different from the teaching of the Buddha,

but at

Post by yelps
the same time, I lament that I alone have heard it and that I am

unable to

Post by yelps
transmit it to others." Thereupon he inscribed the stanza on stones,

cliff

Post by yelps
faces and the trees along the road, and he prayed that those who

might later

Post by yelps
pass by would see it, understand its meaning and finally enter the

true Way.

Post by yelps
This done, he climbed a tall tree and threw himself down before the

demon.

Post by yelps
But before he had reached the ground, the demon quickly resumed his

original

Post by yelps
form as Taishaku, caught Sessen Doji and gently placed him on a level

spot.

Post by yelps
Bowing before him reverently, Taishaku said, "In order to test you, I

held

Post by yelps
back the Buddha's holy teaching for a time, causing anguish in the

heart of

Post by yelps
a bodhisattva. I hope you will forgive my fault and save me without

fail in

Post by yelps
my next life."
Then all of the heavenly beings gathered around to praise Sessen

Doji,

Post by yelps
saying, "How wonderful! He is truly a bodhisattva." Thus, by casting

away

Post by yelps
his body to listen to half a verse, Sessen Doji was able to transcend

the

Post by yelps
realm of birth and death for twelve kalpas. This story appears in the
Nirvana Sutra.
In the past Sessen Doji was willing to give his life in order to hear

but

Post by yelps
half a verse. How much more thankful should we be to hear a chapter

or even

Post by yelps
a volume of the Lotus Sutra! How can we ever repay such a blessing?

Indeed,

Post by yelps
if you care about your next life, you should make Sessen Doji your

example.

Post by yelps
Even though you may be too poor to offer anything of value, if the
opportunity should arise to give up your life for the sake of the

Buddhist

Post by yelps
Law, you should offer your life in order to study Buddhism.
This body of ours in the end will become nothing more than the soil

of the

Post by yelps
hills and fields. Therefore, it is useless to begrudge your life, for

though

Post by yelps
you may wish to, you cannot cling to it forever. Even people who live

a long

Post by yelps
time rarely live beyond the age of one hundred. And all the events of

Post by yelps
lifetime are like the dream one dreams in a brief nap. Though one may

have

Post by yelps
been fortunate enough to be born as a human being and may perhaps

have even

Post by yelps
renounced the world in order to seek the truth, if he fails to study
Buddhism and to refute its slanderers but simply spends his time in

idleness

Post by yelps
and chatter, then he is no better than an animal dressed in priestly

robes.

Post by yelps
He may call himself a priest and earn his livelihood as such, but in

no way

Post by yelps
does he deserve to be regarded as a true priest. He is nothing but a

thief

Post by yelps
who has stolen the name of priest. How shameful and frightening!
In the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra there is a passage

which

Post by yelps
reads, "We do not hold our own lives dear. We value only the supreme

Way."19

Post by yelps
Another passage from the essential teaching reads, "They do not

begrudge

Post by yelps
their lives."20 The Nirvana Sutra states, "One's body is

insignificant while

Post by yelps
the Law is supreme. One should give his life in order to propagate

the

Post by yelps
Law."21 Thus both the theoretical and essential teachings of the

Lotus

Post by yelps
Sutra, as well as the Nirvana Sutra, all indicate that one should

give one's

Post by yelps
life to spread the Law. It is a grave offense to go against these
admonitions, and though one cannot see it with the eye, the error

piles up

Post by yelps
until it sends one plummeting to hell. It is like heat or cold, which

has no

Post by yelps
shape or form that can be seen with the eye. Yet in winter the cold

comes to

Post by yelps
attack trees and grasses, men and beasts, and in summer the heat

comes to

Post by yelps
torment people and animals."
--
!!!!!!!Safety for the Masses!!!!!!!!!
www.yelpsastound.com
My Archives are Private © 2004 DCole
Permission to read, copy or archive
this message is neither given nor implied.

yelps

2005-01-30 21:42:53 UTC

Prior to my own personal re-awakening about the Lotus Sutra, at one time,
had someone come up to me and asked me what Buddhist teacher of the past was
I most in touch with, I would have answered "Milerepa." Yet Milerepa did
not teach the Lotus Sutra, except perhaps unconsciously. Sun Lotus taught
it consciously. There is a difference. One is like someone hearing a bird
sing outside his window when he is asleep.

Prior to my own experience "under the Bodhi Tree," I had not yet read the
Lotus Sutra, nor had I read any of the writings of Sun Lotus. I knew
nothing about him, yet hanging on my wall was a Scroll of the Great Mandala
(Gohonzon) My younger brother had been taken to a Nichiren temple by some
friends and received a Gohonzon, but he did not take it seriously, and when
I had visited him at my parent house, and commented about how interesting
it looked, he asked me if I wanted it and I said okay, so he gave it to me
and I hung it on my wall. He didn't even know that it was a Buddhist
object.

I had also been told the words Nam Myoho Renge Kyo on three occasions but in
all three of those encounters no one said it was "Buddhism." My Buddhist
orientation at that time included very little Japanese terminology. I had
no idea that Myoho Renge Kyo was the title of the Sutra in Japanese, nor was
I aware of the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra (the sanskrit name). By that time
I had graduated from Milerepa and Zen and been using Chih-I's Manual on
practising Chi Kuan, (Stopping the mind and observing it) as my primary
practice. The manual I used, contained a few quotes from the "Lotus Sutra,"
I was doing long term fasting amd meditating nearly continuously over a two
year period and at the time of my primary experiences, I weighed 129
pounds---down from 190 pounds, and was dedicated only to practising Chi
Kuan.

Every 3-6 weeks or so I would use large dose LSD (1500-3000 mcg.) in
complete seclusion and I had a specific series of experiences, that took me
through a recapitulation of the stages of awakening. I did this quite
rapidly---as though I was re-remembering. Never did I settle on any
sectarian approach and say to myself, "this is the final teaching." because
after each corresponding experience I sensed that I had more to do.

At that time in the 1967, most people who used Entheogenic substances where
doing so, minus the fasting and using much lower dosage and although many
had life changing experiences and they began to look at Eastern religion,
they generally didn't have the inborn luck, to be studying Chih-I's Middle
Way, meditation manual. Even Leary, Alpert and Metzner's rewriting of
"The Tibetan Book of the Dead," called "The Psychedelic Experience," (see
link
http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psychedelic_experience/tibetan.html for
complete book)

was only used by a small percentage of people. Most people using
Psychedelics were doing so improperly, ie., in regards to "Set and Setting."
or they were mixing substances (polypharmacy) or interacting with others and
partying, or allowing chaotic environmental distractions (rock concerts)
so their experiences, although in most cases positive and life changing,
had results that were diluted and confusing. Many would then stop using
Psychedelics and start to meditate, and now 30-40 years lsome of them are
thinking back to their LSD experiences and realizing that those were still
there heaviest and most profound experience sof their life, even though they
have been dedicated meditators.

After a sequence of two breakthrough experiences, which had been
qualitatively superior to the simple Satoris or Self-Realizations I had had,
while still fasting, I was given two tablets of a new substance called STP.
(the real name for it is DOM) It was discoverd by the Chemist Dr. Alexander
Shulgin (See link:
http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/shulgin_alexander/shulgin_alexander.shtml
)

Along with the Scroll of the Great Mandala given me by my brother, I also
had a little laquered box that contained a little blue Liturgy Book and a
pair of Nichiren Shoshu juzu beads. I had long forgotten these things and
they were inside an end table next to my meditation mat. In serious
reverence I took the 2 STP tablets (considered an overly large dosage today)
and settled my mind.

I was very determined on that day to complete my Chi Kuan practice and
answer the questions I was left with on my previous experiences. For
whatever unknown reason, after a few moments, I noticed the Scroll of the
Great Mandala on my wall, something I gave little thought to. It was
hanging between a large poster of the I-Ching hexagrams and a Black Light
poster of the Goddess Astarte. When I looked at it something unconscious
occurred. I recalled that I had that little book that went with it so I dug
out the lacquer box from the endtable and removed the book

Because I was fasting the effects of the Entheogen was nearly immediate and
I was already feeling the familiar, intense, waves of egodeath, washing
over me. I opened the book and saw the invocation of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
and it said "repeat three times" I did that, slowly and firmly and as the
sound came out of my month I became overwhelmed. I closed my eyes and
centered my mind and as usual the Milky Way was in the center of my forehead
and my consciousness was expanded to the limits of the universe. I felt two
thoughts in mind mind, then one though and then as the reverberation of the
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ended, as the Giant Helical fabric of space and time,
revolved, closer and closer it showed me its origin in my third eye, my
mind came to a dead stop and the flow reversed and the Middle Way unfurled
in my forehead, revealing that I was in fact sitting on the Platform of the
Path (Bodhimanda), leading to the Stupa of the "7 Precious Substances."

I had the immediate awareness that "I" had been there many times before. I
entered the stage of non-retrogression and my mind was now no longer subject
to the distractions of gain or loss, existence or non-existence, attraction
or repulsion. The rest of the experience I cannot explain in words easily,
but this was the experience of Buddhahood. Flowers fell from the sky and I
was the Eternal Buddha presiding at the ceremony in the air.

After the two day experience, which felt like infinity, I returned to a
usual state of consciousness now aware that I had to propagate Buddhism,
but I couldn't imagine how I would do that since people were not receptive,
so for three months I pondered how I would tell others. But I knew that my
life had already promised to carry out that mission. I knew that I had made
that vow in the infinite past.

Real life events intervened and I was drafted but told them I wouldn't go
that being in the military was agaisnt my religion, so after visited the
army induction center and tossing the paperwork at the chest of the
Sargeant, I walked away and traveled to Hawaii, where I continued meditation
and study, visiting Buddhist temples. While at a Jodo temple and refuting a
Buddhsit Priest in the book store of the temple, I spied a copy of the
"Saddharma Pundarika" translated by Kern. Something drew me to it so I took
it off the shelf and opened it at random, still in heated discussion with
the Priest. In an instant of reading, I knew that this was a depiction of
my own experience. I bought the book and took it back to my little house in
a mango grove and read it from cover to cover, in tears of joy.

My feeling of relief, which brought me to tears of joy, was that I now knew
I was not alone. The next day, I was approached by a member of the Gakkai
at the international marketplace, who was overhearing me teaching another of
the Lotus Sutra. He asked me if I had ever heard of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo? I
said yes, and then he asked me if I had ever heard of "Ichinen Sanzen"
(Three Thousand Life States in a single moment) which I knew from Chih-I's
writings. I was with my girl friend who was hurrying me to leave the market
place and I noticed these Gakkai had trtied to give a newspaper to someone
else and that person had thrown it in the trash, I wanted to grab the paper
but my (long-ignored) girl friend pulled me away, but I had to go back to
get that paper, because the pieces were falling into place. Late that night
I returned to the International Marketplace and took that newspaper from the
trash and brought it back home and read it. I was now completly blown away.
"MYOHO RENGE KYO" was "Saddharma Pundarika Sutra" in Japanese, and "Nichiren
Shoshu" It had a writing of Sun Lotus in the paper which said it was the
True (original) Cause of Buddhahood. So now the rest of the pieces were
falling into place.

Previously I had read a few references to "Nichiren" in a Zen Book called
"Zen Dust," and remembered a Zen Koan which had spoken despairingly about A
simple "Nichiren believer." as one that just follows others. I remembered
my feeling about that Koan, that it had felt arrogant and elitest. So the
next morning, I arose early and went to a book store I had seen behind
Waikiki. I nearly ran out of my little old Porshe to a big barrel of used
books sitting outside the store and dug deep into the barrel and grabbed a
book at random from the bottom of the barrel and pulled up a book "Nichiren
the Buddhist Prophet" by Anesaki (1917) walked inside the store and straight
to a copy of the Uttaratantra by Asanga and opened it to the passge that
refers to the Lotus Sutra:

"Under the floor of some poor man's house lies an uncorroded treasure,
But because he does not know of its existence
He does not say that he is rich.
Similarly, inside one's mind lies truth itself, firm and unfading,
Yet, because beings see it not,
they experience a constant stream of misery.
The pauper with a treasure buried under his shack
Does not say he has a treasure,
for he knows it not:
Likewise, the treasure of truth lies within the house of the mind,
Yet we live impoverished through lack of it.
Therefore the seers take a pure birth into the world,
so that this [treasure] may be made known."

I went home and four the next two weeks I studying the writings of Sun Lotus
from the Anesaki book. It was all so familiar. I was then deep in
meditation nearly all the time, whether walking or sitting, in tears of joy.

I had my girlfriend who was into calligraphy, copy the Chapter 2 and 16 of
the Sutra because I had known intuitivily that these two where the most
important chapters.

When I returned to California I looked up Nichiren Shoshu of America in the
Phone Book and at 10 pm in Santa Monica I arrived just as a Priest was
packing up after an lay ordination ceremony (Gojukai) and I talked him into
permoing one more Gojukai for me. I now received my own Gohonzon and I
rolled up my brothers and brought it back to him. Seeing my intense
enthusiasm he began to practice as did my sisters.

From that point on I began to interact with people who had become "Nichiren
Buddhists" in a more conventional way. At first I had basically assumed
they must all have had the same experiences I had had. But soon I found
that was not true--a painful and lonely realization. I threw myslef into
propagation activity. I learned of Tsunesaburo Makiguchi and Josei Toda and
how they had begun propagtion in 1930 Japan and of Toda's Buddhahood in
prison during World War II.

The movement of Buddhist Propagation was amazing the greates and largest
growth of a Buddhist sect in history in more cojntries then during the reign
of Asoka and proceeded with dramatic growth until 1982 when schismatic
attitudes, between the Lay organization and the Priesthood, had so hampered
the movement, that I had realized I could not support it until it changed.

Without Itai Doshin I knew that the things would remain stagmant and growth
would be at a standstill. During that time Daisaku Ikeda, president of the
Gakkai had allowed too
much reverence directed towards him and many believers were now "following
the person," instead of the "Law." The administration of the Priesthood
had changed due to the death of the elderly High Priest Nittatsu Shonin in
1979 and a new High Priest (the 67th) Nikken took over in that position.
Eventually an argument between D Ikeda and Nikken resulted in Ikeda's
excommunication (1991) and followed a bit later by the excommunication of
all believers who had not left the Gakkai---many millions of people. That
schism is still going on today. It is a roadblock that is gradually being
chipped away by the faith of people who are not gang turf defenders.

This schism is predicted in the Lotus teaching and also in the writings of
Sun Lotus. All people even those who have never heard a buddhist teaching
are reflecting this schims from deep in their life.

It is like the whole world and the universe itself is one drunken, sleeping
giant, just beginning to wake up.

Two Steps forward, one step back repeated endlessly. Now is the time for
another step forward, all buddhism must reunite. It is destiny, fighting it
only brings misery for all beings.

dc

cupcake

2005-01-30 22:03:51 UTC

At the age of 31, Nichiren Shonin returned to Seichoji Temple. On
the morning of April 28, 1253, he faced the rising sun at the top of
Mt. Kiyosumi and chanted Namu Myoho Renge Kyo, thus initiating his
mission to spread the Wonderful Dharma. He also gave himself the name
he is known by today - Nichiren. The name means "Sun Lotus," and
refers to the light of the sun which dispels darkenss and the purity
of the lotus flower which blooms in swamps, untouched by the dirty
water around it.

yelps

2005-01-30 22:40:25 UTC

Post by cupcake
At the age of 31, Nichiren Shonin returned to Seichoji Temple. On
the morning of April 28, 1253, he faced the rising sun at the top of
Mt. Kiyosumi and chanted Namu Myoho Renge Kyo, thus initiating his
mission to spread the Wonderful Dharma. He also gave himself the name
he is known by today - Nichiren. The name means "Sun Lotus," and
refers to the light of the sun which dispels darkenss and the purity
of the lotus flower which blooms in swamps, untouched by the dirty
water around it.

"Names are important for all things. That is why the Great Teacher
T'ien-t'ai placed "designation" first among the five major principles.
Giving myself the name Sun Lotus (Nichiren) signifies that I attained
enlightenment by myself."
from Letter to Jakunichi-bo
http://www.sgi-usa.org/buddhism/library/Nichiren/Gosho/LetterJakunichibo.htm

Julian

2005-01-30 22:46:06 UTC

Beautiful.

I wish I could do that.

Love God...

Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

Tad Perry

2005-01-31 04:31:58 UTC

http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/shulgin_alexander/shulgin_alexander
.shtml

Post by yelps
)
Along with the Scroll of the Great Mandala given me by my brother, I also
had a little laquered box that contained a little blue Liturgy Book and a
pair of Nichiren Shoshu juzu beads. I had long forgotten these things and
they were inside an end table next to my meditation mat. In serious
reverence I took the 2 STP tablets (considered an overly large dosage today)
and settled my mind.
I was very determined on that day to complete my Chi Kuan practice and
answer the questions I was left with on my previous experiences. For
whatever unknown reason, after a few moments, I noticed the Scroll of the
Great Mandala on my wall, something I gave little thought to. It was
hanging between a large poster of the I-Ching hexagrams and a Black Light
poster of the Goddess Astarte. When I looked at it something unconscious
occurred. I recalled that I had that little book that went with it so I dug
out the lacquer box from the endtable and removed the book
Because I was fasting the effects of the Entheogen was nearly immediate and
I was already feeling the familiar, intense, waves of egodeath, washing
over me. I opened the book and saw the invocation of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
and it said "repeat three times" I did that, slowly and firmly and as the
sound came out of my month I became overwhelmed. I closed my eyes and
centered my mind and as usual the Milky Way was in the center of my forehead
and my consciousness was expanded to the limits of the universe. I felt two
thoughts in mind mind, then one though and then as the reverberation of the
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ended, as the Giant Helical fabric of space and time,
revolved, closer and closer it showed me its origin in my third eye, my
mind came to a dead stop and the flow reversed and the Middle Way unfurled
in my forehead, revealing that I was in fact sitting on the Platform of the
Path (Bodhimanda), leading to the Stupa of the "7 Precious Substances."
I had the immediate awareness that "I" had been there many times before.

Post by yelps
entered the stage of non-retrogression and my mind was now no longer subject
to the distractions of gain or loss, existence or non-existence, attraction
or repulsion. The rest of the experience I cannot explain in words easily,
but this was the experience of Buddhahood. Flowers fell from the sky and I
was the Eternal Buddha presiding at the ceremony in the air.
After the two day experience, which felt like infinity, I returned to a
usual state of consciousness now aware that I had to propagate Buddhism,
but I couldn't imagine how I would do that since people were not receptive,
so for three months I pondered how I would tell others. But I knew that my
life had already promised to carry out that mission. I knew that I had made
that vow in the infinite past.
Real life events intervened and I was drafted but told them I wouldn't go
that being in the military was agaisnt my religion, so after visited the
army induction center and tossing the paperwork at the chest of the
Sargeant, I walked away and traveled to Hawaii, where I continued meditation
and study, visiting Buddhist temples. While at a Jodo temple and refuting a
Buddhsit Priest in the book store of the temple, I spied a copy of the
"Saddharma Pundarika" translated by Kern. Something drew me to it so I took
it off the shelf and opened it at random, still in heated discussion with
the Priest. In an instant of reading, I knew that this was a depiction of
my own experience. I bought the book and took it back to my little house in
a mango grove and read it from cover to cover, in tears of joy.
My feeling of relief, which brought me to tears of joy, was that I now knew
I was not alone. The next day, I was approached by a member of the Gakkai
at the international marketplace, who was overhearing me teaching another of
the Lotus Sutra. He asked me if I had ever heard of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo?

Post by yelps
said yes, and then he asked me if I had ever heard of "Ichinen Sanzen"
(Three Thousand Life States in a single moment) which I knew from Chih-I's
writings. I was with my girl friend who was hurrying me to leave the market
place and I noticed these Gakkai had trtied to give a newspaper to someone
else and that person had thrown it in the trash, I wanted to grab the paper
but my (long-ignored) girl friend pulled me away, but I had to go back to
get that paper, because the pieces were falling into place. Late that night
I returned to the International Marketplace and took that newspaper from the
trash and brought it back home and read it. I was now completly blown away.
"MYOHO RENGE KYO" was "Saddharma Pundarika Sutra" in Japanese, and "Nichiren
Shoshu" It had a writing of Sun Lotus in the paper which said it was the
True (original) Cause of Buddhahood. So now the rest of the pieces were
falling into place.
Previously I had read a few references to "Nichiren" in a Zen Book called
"Zen Dust," and remembered a Zen Koan which had spoken despairingly about

Post by yelps
simple "Nichiren believer." as one that just follows others. I remembered
my feeling about that Koan, that it had felt arrogant and elitest. So the
next morning, I arose early and went to a book store I had seen behind
Waikiki. I nearly ran out of my little old Porshe to a big barrel of used
books sitting outside the store and dug deep into the barrel and grabbed a
book at random from the bottom of the barrel and pulled up a book "Nichiren
the Buddhist Prophet" by Anesaki (1917) walked inside the store and straight
to a copy of the Uttaratantra by Asanga and opened it to the passge that
"Under the floor of some poor man's house lies an uncorroded treasure,
But because he does not know of its existence
He does not say that he is rich.
Similarly, inside one's mind lies truth itself, firm and unfading,
Yet, because beings see it not,
they experience a constant stream of misery.
The pauper with a treasure buried under his shack
Does not say he has a treasure,
Likewise, the treasure of truth lies within the house of the mind,
Yet we live impoverished through lack of it.
Therefore the seers take a pure birth into the world,
so that this [treasure] may be made known."
I went home and four the next two weeks I studying the writings of Sun Lotus
from the Anesaki book. It was all so familiar. I was then deep in
meditation nearly all the time, whether walking or sitting, in tears of joy.
I had my girlfriend who was into calligraphy, copy the Chapter 2 and 16 of
the Sutra because I had known intuitivily that these two where the most
important chapters.
When I returned to California I looked up Nichiren Shoshu of America in the
Phone Book and at 10 pm in Santa Monica I arrived just as a Priest was
packing up after an lay ordination ceremony (Gojukai) and I talked him into
permoing one more Gojukai for me. I now received my own Gohonzon and I
rolled up my brothers and brought it back to him. Seeing my intense
enthusiasm he began to practice as did my sisters.
From that point on I began to interact with people who had become "Nichiren
Buddhists" in a more conventional way. At first I had basically assumed
they must all have had the same experiences I had had. But soon I found
that was not true--a painful and lonely realization. I threw myslef into
propagation activity. I learned of Tsunesaburo Makiguchi and Josei Toda and
how they had begun propagtion in 1930 Japan and of Toda's Buddhahood in
prison during World War II.
The movement of Buddhist Propagation was amazing the greates and largest
growth of a Buddhist sect in history in more cojntries then during the reign
of Asoka and proceeded with dramatic growth until 1982 when schismatic
attitudes, between the Lay organization and the Priesthood, had so hampered
the movement, that I had realized I could not support it until it changed.
Without Itai Doshin I knew that the things would remain stagmant and growth
would be at a standstill. During that time Daisaku Ikeda, president of the
Gakkai had allowed too
much reverence directed towards him and many believers were now "following
the person," instead of the "Law." The administration of the Priesthood
had changed due to the death of the elderly High Priest Nittatsu Shonin in
1979 and a new High Priest (the 67th) Nikken took over in that position.
Eventually an argument between D Ikeda and Nikken resulted in Ikeda's
excommunication (1991) and followed a bit later by the excommunication of
all believers who had not left the Gakkai---many millions of people. That
schism is still going on today. It is a roadblock that is gradually being
chipped away by the faith of people who are not gang turf defenders.
This schism is predicted in the Lotus teaching and also in the writings of
Sun Lotus. All people even those who have never heard a buddhist teaching
are reflecting this schims from deep in their life.
It is like the whole world and the universe itself is one drunken, sleeping
giant, just beginning to wake up.
Two Steps forward, one step back repeated endlessly. Now is the time for
another step forward, all buddhism must reunite. It is destiny, fighting it
only brings misery for all beings.

Then let us unite behind what the Buddha most likely said and meant and not
behind what he never said.

The Lotus Sutra.

Did you know that the Lotus Sutra is a sutra? Do you know what a sutra is?
The Master would pass on a title--a Daimoku--The learned student would then,
himself, expand upon the title based on what his master had taught to him.
The only thing remaining of the Lotus Sutra that the Buddha most likely,
himself, said, is the title. And only the title. There is probably nothing
else that can be said to have absolutely been given by him.

Does this mean that there is nothing to be learned from the Lotus Sutra, in
the form it has slowly taken?

No. But they are not necessarily the words of the Buddha either. "Anyone who
even hears the title of this sutra shall achieve non-regression in this
lifetime." That's a line to subjugate a peasant class, not any sort of
actual promise.

tvp

yelps

2005-01-31 04:54:04 UTC

Post by R***@aol.com
a Country before the word Buddhism. To fragment into sects that oppose
each other is non-buddhist in spirit.
To think that "Tibetan" Buddhism does not have the Lotus Sutra, where

this

Post by R***@aol.com
story of Sessen Doji comes from, is caused by studying the wrong
teachers.
I too was at one time a "Tibetan" Buddhist or a "Zen" Buddhist. Both of
these fall into the category of "Middle Mahayana." while the Lotus and
Nirvana Sutra are "Upper Mahayana" All of the Lotus Sutra and Nirvana
Sutra, except for the core teaching which is "hidden between the lines,"
of the 16th Chapter of the Lotus Teaching, is called provisional
teachings.
What I wonder, about you, is when you see this post on Sessen Doji, do

you

Post by R***@aol.com
actually read it carefully first, or do you just quickly write up this
reply indicating your aversion?
dc

Prior to my own personal re-awakening about the Lotus Sutra, at one time,
had someone come up to me and asked me what Buddhist teacher of the past

was

Post by yelps
I most in touch with, I would have answered "Milerepa." Yet Milerepa did
not teach the Lotus Sutra, except perhaps unconsciously. Sun Lotus taught
it consciously. There is a difference. One is like someone hearing a

bird

Post by yelps
sing outside his window when he is asleep.
Prior to my own experience "under the Bodhi Tree," I had not yet read the
Lotus Sutra, nor had I read any of the writings of Sun Lotus. I knew
nothing about him, yet hanging on my wall was a Scroll of the Great

Mandala

Post by yelps
(Gohonzon) My younger brother had been taken to a Nichiren temple by some
friends and received a Gohonzon, but he did not take it seriously, and

when

Post by yelps
I had visited him at my parent house, and commented about how interesting
it looked, he asked me if I wanted it and I said okay, so he gave it to me
and I hung it on my wall. He didn't even know that it was a Buddhist
object.
I had also been told the words Nam Myoho Renge Kyo on three occasions but

Post by yelps
all three of those encounters no one said it was "Buddhism." My Buddhist
orientation at that time included very little Japanese terminology. I had
no idea that Myoho Renge Kyo was the title of the Sutra in Japanese, nor

was

Post by yelps
I aware of the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra (the sanskrit name). By that

time

Post by yelps
I had graduated from Milerepa and Zen and been using Chih-I's Manual on
practising Chi Kuan, (Stopping the mind and observing it) as my primary
practice. The manual I used, contained a few quotes from the "Lotus

Sutra,"

Post by yelps
I was doing long term fasting amd meditating nearly continuously over a

two

Post by yelps
year period and at the time of my primary experiences, I weighed 129
pounds---down from 190 pounds, and was dedicated only to practising Chi
Kuan.
Every 3-6 weeks or so I would use large dose LSD (1500-3000 mcg.) in
complete seclusion and I had a specific series of experiences, that took

Post by yelps
through a recapitulation of the stages of awakening. I did this quite
rapidly---as though I was re-remembering. Never did I settle on any
sectarian approach and say to myself, "this is the final teaching."

because

Post by yelps
after each corresponding experience I sensed that I had more to do.
At that time in the 1967, most people who used Entheogenic substances

where

Post by yelps
doing so, minus the fasting and using much lower dosage and although many
had life changing experiences and they began to look at Eastern religion,
they generally didn't have the inborn luck, to be studying Chih-I's Middle
Way, meditation manual. Even Leary, Alpert and Metzner's rewriting of
"The Tibetan Book of the Dead," called "The Psychedelic Experience," (see
link
http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/psychedelic_experience/tibetan.html for
complete book)
was only used by a small percentage of people. Most people using
Psychedelics were doing so improperly, ie., in regards to "Set and

Setting."

Post by yelps
or they were mixing substances (polypharmacy) or interacting with others

and

Post by yelps
partying, or allowing chaotic environmental distractions (rock concerts)
so their experiences, although in most cases positive and life changing,
had results that were diluted and confusing. Many would then stop using
Psychedelics and start to meditate, and now 30-40 years lsome of them
are
thinking back to their LSD experiences and realizing that those were still
there heaviest and most profound experience sof their life, even though

they

Post by yelps
have been dedicated meditators.
After a sequence of two breakthrough experiences, which had been
qualitatively superior to the simple Satoris or Self-Realizations I had

had,

Post by yelps
while still fasting, I was given two tablets of a new substance called

STP.

Post by yelps
(the real name for it is DOM) It was discoverd by the Chemist Dr.

Alexander
http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/shulgin_alexander/shulgin_alexander
.shtml

today)

Post by yelps
and settled my mind.
I was very determined on that day to complete my Chi Kuan practice and
answer the questions I was left with on my previous experiences. For
whatever unknown reason, after a few moments, I noticed the Scroll of the
Great Mandala on my wall, something I gave little thought to. It was
hanging between a large poster of the I-Ching hexagrams and a Black Light
poster of the Goddess Astarte. When I looked at it something unconscious
occurred. I recalled that I had that little book that went with it so I

dug

Post by yelps
out the lacquer box from the endtable and removed the book
Because I was fasting the effects of the Entheogen was nearly immediate

and

Post by yelps
I was already feeling the familiar, intense, waves of egodeath, washing
over me. I opened the book and saw the invocation of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo
and it said "repeat three times" I did that, slowly and firmly and as the
sound came out of my month I became overwhelmed. I closed my eyes and
centered my mind and as usual the Milky Way was in the center of my

forehead

Post by yelps
and my consciousness was expanded to the limits of the universe. I felt

two

Post by yelps
thoughts in mind mind, then one though and then as the reverberation of

the

Post by yelps
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo ended, as the Giant Helical fabric of space and time,
revolved, closer and closer it showed me its origin in my third eye, my
mind came to a dead stop and the flow reversed and the Middle Way unfurled
in my forehead, revealing that I was in fact sitting on the Platform of

the

Post by yelps
Path (Bodhimanda), leading to the Stupa of the "7 Precious Substances."
I had the immediate awareness that "I" had been there many times before.

Post by yelps
entered the stage of non-retrogression and my mind was now no longer

subject

Post by yelps
to the distractions of gain or loss, existence or non-existence,

attraction

Post by yelps
or repulsion. The rest of the experience I cannot explain in words

easily,

Post by yelps
but this was the experience of Buddhahood. Flowers fell from the sky and

Post by yelps
was the Eternal Buddha presiding at the ceremony in the air.
After the two day experience, which felt like infinity, I returned to a
usual state of consciousness now aware that I had to propagate Buddhism,
but I couldn't imagine how I would do that since people were not

receptive,

Post by yelps
so for three months I pondered how I would tell others. But I knew that my
life had already promised to carry out that mission. I knew that I had

made

Post by yelps
that vow in the infinite past.
Real life events intervened and I was drafted but told them I wouldn't go
that being in the military was agaisnt my religion, so after visited the
army induction center and tossing the paperwork at the chest of the
Sargeant, I walked away and traveled to Hawaii, where I continued

meditation

Post by yelps
and study, visiting Buddhist temples. While at a Jodo temple and
refuting

Post by yelps
Buddhsit Priest in the book store of the temple, I spied a copy of the
"Saddharma Pundarika" translated by Kern. Something drew me to it so I

took

Post by yelps
it off the shelf and opened it at random, still in heated discussion with
the Priest. In an instant of reading, I knew that this was a depiction of
my own experience. I bought the book and took it back to my little house

Post by yelps
a mango grove and read it from cover to cover, in tears of joy.
My feeling of relief, which brought me to tears of joy, was that I now

knew

Post by yelps
I was not alone. The next day, I was approached by a member of the

Gakkai

Post by yelps
at the international marketplace, who was overhearing me teaching another

Post by yelps
the Lotus Sutra. He asked me if I had ever heard of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo?

market

Post by yelps
place and I noticed these Gakkai had trtied to give a newspaper to someone
else and that person had thrown it in the trash, I wanted to grab the

paper

Post by yelps
but my (long-ignored) girl friend pulled me away, but I had to go back to
get that paper, because the pieces were falling into place. Late that

night

Post by yelps
I returned to the International Marketplace and took that newspaper from

the

Post by yelps
trash and brought it back home and read it. I was now completly blown

away.

Post by yelps
"MYOHO RENGE KYO" was "Saddharma Pundarika Sutra" in Japanese, and

"Nichiren

Post by yelps
Shoshu" It had a writing of Sun Lotus in the paper which said it was the
True (original) Cause of Buddhahood. So now the rest of the pieces were
falling into place.
Previously I had read a few references to "Nichiren" in a Zen Book called
"Zen Dust," and remembered a Zen Koan which had spoken despairingly about

"Nichiren

Post by yelps
the Buddhist Prophet" by Anesaki (1917) walked inside the store and

straight

Post by yelps
to a copy of the Uttaratantra by Asanga and opened it to the passge that
"Under the floor of some poor man's house lies an uncorroded treasure,
But because he does not know of its existence
He does not say that he is rich.
Similarly, inside one's mind lies truth itself, firm and unfading,
Yet, because beings see it not,
they experience a constant stream of misery.
The pauper with a treasure buried under his shack
Does not say he has a treasure,
Likewise, the treasure of truth lies within the house of the mind,
Yet we live impoverished through lack of it.
Therefore the seers take a pure birth into the world,
so that this [treasure] may be made known."
I went home and four the next two weeks I studying the writings of Sun

Lotus

Post by yelps
from the Anesaki book. It was all so familiar. I was then deep in
meditation nearly all the time, whether walking or sitting, in tears of

joy.

Post by yelps
I had my girlfriend who was into calligraphy, copy the Chapter 2 and 16 of
the Sutra because I had known intuitivily that these two where the most
important chapters.
When I returned to California I looked up Nichiren Shoshu of America in

the

Post by yelps
Phone Book and at 10 pm in Santa Monica I arrived just as a Priest was
packing up after an lay ordination ceremony (Gojukai) and I talked him

into

Post by yelps
permoing one more Gojukai for me. I now received my own Gohonzon and I
rolled up my brothers and brought it back to him. Seeing my intense
enthusiasm he began to practice as did my sisters.
From that point on I began to interact with people who had become

"Nichiren

Post by yelps
Buddhists" in a more conventional way. At first I had basically assumed
they must all have had the same experiences I had had. But soon I found
that was not true--a painful and lonely realization. I threw myslef into
propagation activity. I learned of Tsunesaburo Makiguchi and Josei Toda

and

Post by yelps
how they had begun propagtion in 1930 Japan and of Toda's Buddhahood in
prison during World War II.
The movement of Buddhist Propagation was amazing the greates and largest
growth of a Buddhist sect in history in more cojntries then during the

reign

Post by yelps
of Asoka and proceeded with dramatic growth until 1982 when schismatic
attitudes, between the Lay organization and the Priesthood, had so

hampered

Post by yelps
the movement, that I had realized I could not support it until it changed.
Without Itai Doshin I knew that the things would remain stagmant and

growth

Post by yelps
would be at a standstill. During that time Daisaku Ikeda, president of

the

Post by yelps
Gakkai had allowed too
much reverence directed towards him and many believers were now

"following

Post by yelps
the person," instead of the "Law." The administration of the Priesthood
had changed due to the death of the elderly High Priest Nittatsu Shonin in
1979 and a new High Priest (the 67th) Nikken took over in that position.
Eventually an argument between D Ikeda and Nikken resulted in Ikeda's
excommunication (1991) and followed a bit later by the excommunication of
all believers who had not left the Gakkai---many millions of people.
That
schism is still going on today. It is a roadblock that is gradually being
chipped away by the faith of people who are not gang turf defenders.
This schism is predicted in the Lotus teaching and also in the writings of
Sun Lotus. All people even those who have never heard a buddhist teaching
are reflecting this schims from deep in their life.
It is like the whole world and the universe itself is one drunken,

sleeping

Post by yelps
giant, just beginning to wake up.
Two Steps forward, one step back repeated endlessly. Now is the time for
another step forward, all buddhism must reunite. It is destiny, fighting

Post by yelps
only brings misery for all beings.

Then let us unite behind what the Buddha most likely said and meant and not
behind what he never said.
The Lotus Sutra.
Did you know that the Lotus Sutra is a sutra? Do you know what a sutra is?
The Master would pass on a title--a Daimoku--The learned student would then,
himself, expand upon the title based on what his master had taught to him.
The only thing remaining of the Lotus Sutra that the Buddha most likely,
himself, said, is the title. And only the title. There is probably nothing
else that can be said to have absolutely been given by him.
Does this mean that there is nothing to be learned from the Lotus Sutra, in
the form it has slowly taken?
No. But they are not necessarily the words of the Buddha either. "Anyone who
even hears the title of this sutra shall achieve non-regression in this
lifetime." That's a line to subjugate a peasant class, not any sort of
actual promise.
tvp

You have no clue. Come back when you have a clue.

dc

Julian

2005-01-31 05:35:18 UTC

this

you

Post by R***@aol.com
actually read it carefully first, or do you just quickly write up this
reply indicating your aversion?
dc

Prior to my own personal re-awakening about the Lotus Sutra, at one time,
had someone come up to me and asked me what Buddhist teacher of the past

was

bird

Mandala

Post by yelps
(Gohonzon) My younger brother had been taken to a Nichiren temple by some
friends and received a Gohonzon, but he did not take it seriously, and

when

was

Post by yelps
I aware of the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra (the sanskrit name). By that

time

Sutra,"

Post by yelps
I was doing long term fasting amd meditating nearly continuously over a

two

because

Post by yelps
after each corresponding experience I sensed that I had more to do.
At that time in the 1967, most people who used Entheogenic substances

where

Setting."

Post by yelps
or they were mixing substances (polypharmacy) or interacting with others

and

they

Post by yelps
have been dedicated meditators.
After a sequence of two breakthrough experiences, which had been
qualitatively superior to the simple Satoris or Self-Realizations I had

had,

Post by yelps
while still fasting, I was given two tablets of a new substance called

STP.

Post by yelps
(the real name for it is DOM) It was discoverd by the Chemist Dr.

Alexander
http://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/shulgin_alexander/shulgin_alexander
.shtml

today)

dug

Post by yelps
out the lacquer box from the endtable and removed the book
Because I was fasting the effects of the Entheogen was nearly immediate

and

forehead

Post by yelps
and my consciousness was expanded to the limits of the universe. I felt

two

Post by yelps
thoughts in mind mind, then one though and then as the reverberation of

the

Post by yelps
Path (Bodhimanda), leading to the Stupa of the "7 Precious Substances."
I had the immediate awareness that "I" had been there many times before.

Post by yelps
entered the stage of non-retrogression and my mind was now no longer

subject

Post by yelps
to the distractions of gain or loss, existence or non-existence,

attraction

Post by yelps
or repulsion. The rest of the experience I cannot explain in words

easily,

Post by yelps
but this was the experience of Buddhahood. Flowers fell from the sky and

receptive,

Post by yelps
so for three months I pondered how I would tell others. But I knew that my
life had already promised to carry out that mission. I knew that I had

made

meditation

Post by yelps
and study, visiting Buddhist temples. While at a Jodo temple and
refuting

Post by yelps
Buddhsit Priest in the book store of the temple, I spied a copy of the
"Saddharma Pundarika" translated by Kern. Something drew me to it so I

took

Post by yelps
a mango grove and read it from cover to cover, in tears of joy.
My feeling of relief, which brought me to tears of joy, was that I now

knew

Post by yelps
I was not alone. The next day, I was approached by a member of the

Gakkai

Post by yelps
at the international marketplace, who was overhearing me teaching another

Post by yelps
the Lotus Sutra. He asked me if I had ever heard of Nam Myoho Renge Kyo?

market

Post by yelps
place and I noticed these Gakkai had trtied to give a newspaper to someone
else and that person had thrown it in the trash, I wanted to grab the

paper

Post by yelps
but my (long-ignored) girl friend pulled me away, but I had to go back to
get that paper, because the pieces were falling into place. Late that

night

Post by yelps
I returned to the International Marketplace and took that newspaper from

the

Post by yelps
trash and brought it back home and read it. I was now completly blown

away.

Post by yelps
"MYOHO RENGE KYO" was "Saddharma Pundarika Sutra" in Japanese, and

"Nichiren

Post by yelps
the Buddhist Prophet" by Anesaki (1917) walked inside the store and

straight

Lotus

Post by yelps
from the Anesaki book. It was all so familiar. I was then deep in
meditation nearly all the time, whether walking or sitting, in tears of

joy.

the

Post by yelps
Phone Book and at 10 pm in Santa Monica I arrived just as a Priest was
packing up after an lay ordination ceremony (Gojukai) and I talked him

into

"Nichiren

and

reign

Post by yelps
of Asoka and proceeded with dramatic growth until 1982 when schismatic
attitudes, between the Lay organization and the Priesthood, had so

hampered

Post by yelps
the movement, that I had realized I could not support it until it changed.
Without Itai Doshin I knew that the things would remain stagmant and

growth

Post by yelps
would be at a standstill. During that time Daisaku Ikeda, president of

the

Post by yelps
Gakkai had allowed too
much reverence directed towards him and many believers were now

"following

sleeping

Post by yelps
giant, just beginning to wake up.
Two Steps forward, one step back repeated endlessly. Now is the time for
another step forward, all buddhism must reunite. It is destiny, fighting

Post by yelps
only brings misery for all beings.

Then let us unite behind what the Buddha most likely said and meant and not
behind what he never said.
The Lotus Sutra.
Did you know that the Lotus Sutra is a sutra? Do you know what a sutra is?
The Master would pass on a title--a Daimoku--The learned student would then,
himself, expand upon the title based on what his master had taught to him.
The only thing remaining of the Lotus Sutra that the Buddha most likely,
himself, said, is the title. And only the title. There is probably nothing
else that can be said to have absolutely been given by him.
Does this mean that there is nothing to be learned from the Lotus Sutra, in
the form it has slowly taken?
No. But they are not necessarily the words of the Buddha either. "Anyone who
even hears the title of this sutra shall achieve non-regression in this
lifetime." That's a line to subjugate a peasant class, not any sort of
actual promise.
tvp

You have no clue. Come back when you have a clue.
dc

Forget him Dave.. he's gone.
Have you heards his band..? the Motlicru..?
Rubbish..complete and utter tosh...

Only use, I reckon, is when you've had enough
partying and you want the guests to split...
Put on a Motlicru toon and they're gone.

Motlicru... aural stink bomb!

Love God...

Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

Tad Perry

2005-01-31 11:39:40 UTC

Post by yelps
You have no clue. Come back when you have a clue.

I have a strong clue that you have no ability to think.

You, me and everyone watching realizes that it is true that you personally
cannot vouch for every word of this sutra.

You are in no position of authority to say what is valid and approved and
what is invalid and unapproved.

Although you have had a high level of consciousness expansion, and I am
willing to recognize that, I want you to very closely consider the
possibility that your place in Buddhism is not as special as you think.

You need to learn to see it as it is.

Now, I know that the energy you put into denial is going to rise. But
remember, the audience usually sees exactly what's going on. If you want to
get trapped in Nichiren, you go right on ahead. They have nice picnics and
cute little girls for you to chase after.

tvp

R***@aol.com

2005-01-30 22:10:24 UTC

teachers.

Post by R***@aol.com
I too was at one time a "Tibetan" Buddhist or a "Zen" Buddhist. Both of
these fall into the category of "Middle Mahayana." while the Lotus and
Nirvana Sutra are "Upper Mahayana" All of the Lotus Sutra and Nirvana Sutra,
except for the core teaching which is "hidden between the lines," of the
16th Chapter of the Lotus Teaching, is called provisional teachings.
What I wonder, about you, is when you see this post on Sessen Doji, do you
actually read it carefully first, or do you just quickly write up this reply
indicating your aversion?
dc

if you check carefully, you will see i have no aversion to
nichren. i have never balked on cross posting. i see it more as a
natural flow, as i've rarely met a buddhist that was rock hard on their
paticular style, american buddhist explore alot, it is natural there is
cross styles and intrests on the boards... it is customary to start
threads where they are based. this is done to keep the boards from
becoming chaotic. i was asking what your reason is.you and julian are
the first ones i have seen outside of ben, if you do not want to give
it, that is fine, i simply asked.
i am not a tibetan buddhist. i took refuge in the tibetan tradition, i
have a tibetan teacher, i have a zen teacher sometimes too... i am an
american buddhist that has had alot of tibetan style buddhism. some
zen...mostly tibetan, i like the avalibilty of teachers...
i hope this has cleared up any misconceptions.
love,
pema
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it." Aristotle

Post by R***@aol.com

Post by yelps
"Long, long ago there was a young man who lived in the Snow

Mountains

Post by yelps
was called Sessen Doji. He gathered brackens and nuts to keep

himself

Post by R***@aol.com
alive,

Post by yelps
made garments of deerskin to clothe his body and quietly practiced

the Way.

Post by yelps
As he observed the world with care and attention, Sessen Doji came to
understand that nothing is permanent and everything changes, and

that

Post by R***@aol.com
all

Post by yelps
that is born is destined to die. This weary world is as fleeting as

Post by R***@aol.com
flash

Post by yelps
of lightning, as the morning dew that vanishes in the sun, as a

lamp

Post by R***@aol.com
easily

Post by yelps
blown out by the wind, or as the fragile leaves of the plantain

that

Post by R***@aol.com
are so

Post by yelps
readily broken.
No one can escape this transience. In the end, all must take the

journey to

Post by yelps
the Yellow Springs, the land of death. When we imagine the trip to

the other

Post by yelps
world, we sense utter darkness. There is no light from the sun, the

moon, or

Post by yelps
the stars; not even so much as a torch to illuminate the way. And

along that

Post by yelps
dark road, there is no one to keep you company. When one is in the

saha

Post by yelps
world, he is surrounded by parents and relatives, brothers and

sisters, wife

Post by yelps
and children, and retainers. Fathers may show lofty compassion, and

mothers,

Post by yelps
profound loving sympathy. Husband and wife may be as faithful as

two

Post by R***@aol.com
shrimps

Post by yelps
of the sea who vow to share the same hole and never to part

throughout life.

Post by yelps
Yet, though they push their pillows side by side and sport together

under

Post by yelps
the quilts embroidered with mandarin ducks,17 they can never be

together on

Post by yelps
that journey to the land of death. As you travel alone in darkness,

who will

Post by yelps
come to encourage you?
Though old and young alike dwell in the realm of uncertainty, it is

part of

Post by yelps
the natural order for the elderly to die first and the young to

remain

Post by yelps
awhile. Thus, even as we grieve, we can find some cause for

consolation.

Post by yelps
Sometimes, however, it is the old who remain and the young who die

first. No

Post by yelps
one feels more bitter resentment than a young child who dies before

his

Post by yelps
parents. No one despairs more deeply than parents who see their child
precede them in death. People live in this fleeting world where all

Post by yelps
uncertainty and impermanence, yet day and night they think only of

how much

Post by yelps
wealth they can amass in this life. From dawn to dusk they

concentrate on

Post by yelps
worldly affairs, and neither revere the Buddha nor take faith in

the

Post by R***@aol.com
Law.

Post by yelps
They ignore Buddhist practice and lack wisdom, idling their days

away. And

Post by yelps
when they die and are brought before the court of Emma, the king of

hell,

Post by yelps
what can they carry as provisions on the long journey through the

threefold

Post by yelps
world? What can they use as a boat or raft to ferry themselves

across

Post by R***@aol.com
the

Post by yelps
sea of the sufferings of birth and death to the land of Actual

Reward

Post by R***@aol.com
or the

Post by yelps
land of Tranquil Light?18 When one is deluded, it is as if he were

dreaming.

Post by yelps
And when one is enlightened, it is as if he had awakened. Thinking

Post by R***@aol.com
this

Post by yelps
way, Sessen Doji resolved to awake from the dream of the transient

world and

Post by yelps
to seek the reality of enlightenment. So he secluded himself in the
mountains and devoted himself to deep meditation, sweeping away the

dust of

Post by yelps
delusion in his single-minded pursuit of the Buddhist Law.
The god Taishaku (Indra) looked down from heaven and observed

Sessen

Post by R***@aol.com
Doji

Post by yelps
in the distance. He thought to himself, "Though the baby fish are

many,

Post by yelps
there are few that grow up to be big fish. Though the flowers of

the

Post by R***@aol.com
mango

Post by yelps
tree are many, there are few that turn into fruit. In like manner,

there are

Post by yelps
many people who set their hearts on enlightenment, but only a few who
continue their practice and in fact attain the true Way. The

aspiration for

Post by yelps
enlightenment in common mortals is often hindered by evil

influences

Post by yelps
easily swayed by circumstances; though many warriors don armor, few

Post by yelps
without fear into battle. Let me go test this young man's faith."

Post by R***@aol.com
saying,

Post by yelps
Taishaku disguised himself as a demon and appeared at Sessen Doji's

side.

Post by yelps
At that time the Buddha had not yet made his appearance in the

world,

Post by yelps
although Sessen Doji had sought everywhere for the Mahayana

teachings, he

Post by yelps
had been unable to learn anything of them. Just then he heard a

faint

Post by R***@aol.com
voice

Post by yelps
saying, "All is changeable, nothing is constant. This is the law of

birth

Post by yelps
and death." Sessen Doji looked all around in amazement, but there

was

Post by R***@aol.com
no one

Post by yelps
in sight except a demon standing nearby. In appearance it was

fierce

Post by yelps
horrible; the hairs on its head were like flames and the teeth in

its

Post by R***@aol.com
mouth

Post by yelps
like swords, and its eyes were fixed on Sessen Doji in a furious

glare. When

Post by yelps
Sessen Doji saw this, he was not frightened in the least. He was so
overjoyed at the opportunity to hear something of the Buddhist

teaching that

Post by yelps
he did not even question it. He was like a calf separated from its

mother

Post by yelps
that hears the faint sound of her lowing. "Who spoke that verse?

There must

Post by yelps
be more!" he thought, and once more he searched all around, but

still

Post by R***@aol.com
there

Post by yelps
was no one to be seen. He wondered if it could have been the demon

who

Post by yelps
recited the verse. But on second thought that seemed impossible,

since the

Post by yelps
demon must have been born a demon in retribution for some evil act

Post by R***@aol.com
the

Post by yelps
past. The verse was certainly a teaching of the Buddha, and he was

sure it

Post by yelps
could never have come from the mouth of a lowly demon. But as there

was no

Post by yelps
one else about, he asked, "Was it you who preached that verse?"

"Don't speak

Post by yelps
to me!" replied the demon. "I've had nothing to eat for days. I'm

starved,

Doji,

Post by R***@aol.com
"is

Post by yelps
like seeing only half the moon or obtaining half a jewel. It must

have been

Post by yelps
you who spoke, so I beg you to teach me the remaining half." The

demon

Post by yelps
replied sarcastically, "You are already enlightened, so you should

feel no

Doji.

Post by R***@aol.com
"If I

Post by yelps
had something to eat, I might be able to," said the demon. Elated,

Sessen

Post by yelps
Doji said, "Well then, what kind of food would you like?" But the

demon

Post by yelps
replied, "Ask no more. You will certainly be horrified when you

hear

Post by R***@aol.com
what I

Post by yelps
eat. Besides, you would never be able to provide it."
Yet Sessen Doji was insistent. "If you will just tell me what you

want, I

Post by yelps
will try to find it for you." The demon answered, "I eat only the

tender

Post by yelps
flesh of humans and drink only their warm blood. I fly through the

air far

Post by yelps
and wide in search of food, but people are protected by the Buddhas

and gods

Post by yelps
so that even though I want to kill them, I cannot. I can only kill

and eat

Post by yelps
those whom the Buddhas and gods have forsaken."
Hearing this, Sessen Doji decided to give his own body for the sake

of the

Post by yelps
Law, so that he could hear the entire verse. "You food is right

here," he

Post by yelps
said. "You need look no further. Since I am still alive, my flesh

Post by R***@aol.com
warm,

Post by yelps
and my blood has had no time to turn cold. Therefore, I ask you to

teach me

Post by yelps
the rest of the verse, and in exchange, I will offer you my body."

Then the

Post by yelps
demon grew furious and demanded, "Who could believe your words?

After

Post by R***@aol.com
I've

Post by yelps
taught you the rest of the verse, who can I call on as a witness to

make you

Post by yelps
keep your promise?"
Sessen Doji replied, "This body of mine is mortal. But if I give my

life for

Post by yelps
the Law, casting away this vile body which would otherwise die in

vain, in

Post by yelps
the next life I will certainly be able to attain enlightenment and

become a

Post by yelps
Buddha. I will receive a pure and wonderful body. It will be like

throwing

Post by yelps
away a piece of crockery and receiving a precious vessel in

exchange.

Post by R***@aol.com
I call

Post by yelps
upon Bonten and Taishaku, the Four Heavenly Kings, and all the

Buddhas and

Post by yelps
bodhisattvas of the ten directions to be my witnesses. I could not

possibly

Post by yelps
deceive you before them."
The demon, somewhat mollified, said, "If what you say is true, I

will

Post by R***@aol.com
teach

Post by yelps
you the rest of the verse." Sessen Doji was overjoyed and, removing

his

Post by yelps
deerskin garment, spread it out for the demon to sit upon while he

preached.

Post by yelps
Then Sessen Doji knelt, bowed his head to the ground and placed his

palms

Post by yelps
together in reverence, saying, "All I ask is that you teach me the

rest of

Post by yelps
the verse." Thus he offered his heartfelt respect to the demon. The

demon,
"Extinguishing

Post by yelps
the cycle of birth and death, one enters the joy of nirvana." The

moment he

Post by yelps
heard this, Sessen Doji was filled with joy, and his reverence for

the verse

Post by yelps
was boundless. Resolved to remember it even until the next life, he

repeated

Post by yelps
it over and over again and etched it deep in his heart.
He pondered, thinking to himself, "I rejoice that this verse,

[though

Post by R***@aol.com
it

Post by yelps
came from a demon,] is no different from the teaching of the

Buddha,

Post by R***@aol.com
but at

Post by yelps
the same time, I lament that I alone have heard it and that I am

unable to

Post by yelps
transmit it to others." Thereupon he inscribed the stanza on

stones,

Post by R***@aol.com
cliff

Post by yelps
faces and the trees along the road, and he prayed that those who

might later

Post by yelps
pass by would see it, understand its meaning and finally enter the

true Way.

Post by yelps
This done, he climbed a tall tree and threw himself down before the

demon.

Post by yelps
But before he had reached the ground, the demon quickly resumed his

original

Post by yelps
form as Taishaku, caught Sessen Doji and gently placed him on a

level

Post by R***@aol.com
spot.

Post by yelps
Bowing before him reverently, Taishaku said, "In order to test you,

Post by R***@aol.com
held

Post by yelps
back the Buddha's holy teaching for a time, causing anguish in the

heart of

Post by yelps
a bodhisattva. I hope you will forgive my fault and save me without

fail in

Post by yelps
my next life."
Then all of the heavenly beings gathered around to praise Sessen

Doji,

Post by yelps
saying, "How wonderful! He is truly a bodhisattva." Thus, by

casting

Post by R***@aol.com
away

Post by yelps
his body to listen to half a verse, Sessen Doji was able to

transcend

Post by R***@aol.com
the

Post by yelps
realm of birth and death for twelve kalpas. This story appears in the
Nirvana Sutra.
In the past Sessen Doji was willing to give his life in order to

hear

Post by R***@aol.com
but

Post by yelps
half a verse. How much more thankful should we be to hear a chapter

or even

Post by yelps
a volume of the Lotus Sutra! How can we ever repay such a blessing?

Indeed,

Post by yelps
if you care about your next life, you should make Sessen Doji your

example.

Post by yelps
Even though you may be too poor to offer anything of value, if the
opportunity should arise to give up your life for the sake of the

Buddhist

Post by yelps
Law, you should offer your life in order to study Buddhism.
This body of ours in the end will become nothing more than the soil

of the

Post by yelps
hills and fields. Therefore, it is useless to begrudge your life,

for

Post by R***@aol.com
though

Post by yelps
you may wish to, you cannot cling to it forever. Even people who

live

Post by R***@aol.com
a long

Post by yelps
time rarely live beyond the age of one hundred. And all the events

Post by R***@aol.com
a

Post by yelps
lifetime are like the dream one dreams in a brief nap. Though one

may

Post by R***@aol.com
have

Post by yelps
been fortunate enough to be born as a human being and may perhaps

have even

Post by yelps
renounced the world in order to seek the truth, if he fails to study
Buddhism and to refute its slanderers but simply spends his time in

idleness

Post by yelps
and chatter, then he is no better than an animal dressed in

priestly

Post by R***@aol.com
robes.

Post by yelps
He may call himself a priest and earn his livelihood as such, but

Post by R***@aol.com
no way

Post by yelps
does he deserve to be regarded as a true priest. He is nothing but

Post by R***@aol.com
thief

Post by yelps
who has stolen the name of priest. How shameful and frightening!
In the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra there is a passage

which

Post by yelps
reads, "We do not hold our own lives dear. We value only the

supreme

Post by R***@aol.com
Way."19

Post by yelps
Another passage from the essential teaching reads, "They do not

begrudge

Post by yelps
their lives."20 The Nirvana Sutra states, "One's body is

insignificant while

Post by yelps
the Law is supreme. One should give his life in order to propagate

the

Post by yelps
Law."21 Thus both the theoretical and essential teachings of the

Lotus

Post by yelps
Sutra, as well as the Nirvana Sutra, all indicate that one should

give one's

Post by yelps
life to spread the Law. It is a grave offense to go against these
admonitions, and though one cannot see it with the eye, the error

piles up

Post by yelps
until it sends one plummeting to hell. It is like heat or cold,

which

Post by R***@aol.com
has no

Post by yelps
shape or form that can be seen with the eye. Yet in winter the cold

comes to

Post by yelps
attack trees and grasses, men and beasts, and in summer the heat

comes to

yelps

2005-01-30 22:31:12 UTC

<***@aol.com> wrote in message news:***@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

if you check carefully, you will see i have no aversion to
nichren. i have never balked on cross posting. i see it more as a
natural flow, as i've rarely met a buddhist that was rock hard on their
paticular style, american buddhist explore alot, it is natural there is
cross styles and intrests on the boards... <<<<<<<<

I had questioned my own use of the word "aversion" in your case, and may
have assumed you felt some kind of aversion. I too don't care about
crossposts to groups I post to, if there is attempts at real communication
and not just gang-turf defending.

After I reread my post to you I saw that your deserved a deeper explanation
so that prompted me to post a more lengthy reply. I knew your post was not
the run of the mill attack.

Post by R***@aol.com
it is customary to start

threads where they are based. this is done to keep the boards from
becoming chaotic. i was asking what your reason is.you and julian are
the first ones i have seen outside of ben, if you do not want to give
it, that is fine, i simply asked.
i am not a tibetan buddhist. i took refuge in the tibetan tradition, i
have a tibetan teacher, i have a zen teacher sometimes too... i am an
american buddhist that has had alot of tibetan style buddhism. some
zen...mostly tibetan, i like the avalibilty of teachers...
i hope this has cleared up any misconceptions.
love,
pema
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought
without accepting it." Aristotle<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

So I wrote you a more lengthy reply, as to "why?" I hope it was a
satisfactory explanation why.

dc

Tad Perry

2005-01-31 11:50:13 UTC

Post by R***@aol.com
if you check carefully, you will see i have no aversion to
nichren. i have never balked on cross posting. i see it more as a
natural flow, as i've rarely met a buddhist that was rock hard on their
paticular style, american buddhist explore alot, it is natural there is
cross styles and intrests on the boards... <<<<<<<<
I had questioned my own use of the word "aversion" in your case, and may
have assumed you felt some kind of aversion. I too don't care about
crossposts to groups I post to, if there is attempts at real

communication

Post by R***@aol.com
and not just gang-turf defending.
After I reread my post to you I saw that your deserved a deeper explanation
so that prompted me to post a more lengthy reply. I knew your post was not
the run of the mill attack.

I want you to know that I also have no inherent problem with Nichiren. It is
only when it turns into "this is all you need, just repeat this" that
Nichiren and I find ourselves at complete odds with each other. And I'll say
it one more time, perhaps I'm the one using expeidient means here, but
please read the Eightfold Path and the Buddha's words on following each of
the eight aspects. If you can come to radiate those energies in all
directions and situations, you will become a Buddha of Activity.

tvp

Tang Huyen

2005-01-31 12:11:37 UTC

Post by Tad Perry
I want you to know that I also have no inherent
problem with Nichiren. It is only when it turns
into "this is all you need, just repeat this" that
Nichiren and I find ourselves at complete odds
with each other.

To me all you need is fluff, all you need is to treat
everything as fluff.

If you want something more expanded and lyrical,
try Jen's immortal words:

<<it's all just a play of ideas, no need to
take it seriously. it's a passing fancy, a
caprice, a felicity.

trying to box it in with concepts is never
ending and never satisfying.>>

That's about as concise and all-inclusive summary
of the philosophical worldview of Buddhism (here I
exclude the technique, like technique of meditation)
as you ever get, and you don't need to read all the
arcane technical developments (which by the way
don't add anything to any understanding of Buddhism
within thought and language).

If you practice as above, you'll get rid of most of your
suffering, and the rest is bearable, without benefit of
any technique. If you want technique on top of that,
you may surely get it, but by then you won't need
most of it, anyway. Most of the people on these
boards who practice industrial-strength technique are
nowhere near attaining to the above yet. And you don't
need any language other than plain English for the
above.

Technique is fluff, too, like everything else.

Tang Huyen

Evelyn Ruut

2005-01-31 12:08:21 UTC

Post by Tang Huyen

To me all you need is fluff, all you need is to treat
everything as fluff.
If you want something more expanded and lyrical,
<<it's all just a play of ideas, no need to
take it seriously. it's a passing fancy, a
caprice, a felicity.
trying to box it in with concepts is never
ending and never satisfying.>>
That's about as concise and all-inclusive summary
of the philosophical worldview of Buddhism (here I
exclude the technique, like technique of meditation)
as you ever get, and you don't need to read all the
arcane technical developments (which by the way
don't add anything to any understanding of Buddhism
within thought and language).
If you practice as above, you'll get rid of most of your
suffering, and the rest is bearable, without benefit of
any technique. If you want technique on top of that,
you may surely get it, but by then you won't need
most of it, anyway. Most of the people on these
boards who practice industrial-strength technique are
nowhere near attaining to the above yet. And you don't
need any language other than plain English for the
above.
Technique is fluff, too, like everything else.
Tang Huyen

LOL! I have been telling you that for years, but you never believed it.

--
Regards,
Evelyn

(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox")

d***@gmail.com

2005-01-31 15:07:56 UTC

Post by Tang Huyen
...
If you practice as above, you'll get rid of most of your
suffering, and the rest is bearable, without benefit of
any technique. If you want technique on top of that,
you may surely get it, but by then you won't need
most of it, anyway. Most of the people on these
boards who practice industrial-strength technique are
nowhere near attaining to the above yet. And you don't
need any language other than plain English for the
above.
Technique is fluff, too, like everything else.
Tang Huyen

Old Tang gave away his treasure words!
He must have been greatly upset.
*8)

http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/gateless-gate/27.html

DC

Tang Huyen

2005-01-31 16:42:10 UTC

Post by d***@gmail.com

Old Tang gave away his treasure words!
He must have been greatly upset.
*8)
http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/gateless-gate/27.html
DC

As I often say, much of what passes for Buddhism
is a replay of the Buddha's Jaina phase of self-mortification
and self-starvation, though restricted to the mental realm.
Buddhists learn to cause suffering to themselves massively
(instead of casually, as in normal delusion) and to inflict
suffering on themselves massively (instead of casually, as in
normal delusion) just so that they realise how stupid (under
presumably wise tutelage) they are doing just that, namely
causing suffering to themselves and inflciting suffering to
themselves, all for nothing.

If they know how to see that all is fluff, to treat everything
as fluff, they don't need to go through self-torture to stop
causing suffering to themselves and inflicting suffering to
themselves.

To go back to Jen's immortal words:

<<it's all just a play of ideas, no need to
take it seriously. it's a passing fancy, a
caprice, a felicity.

trying to box it in with concepts is never
ending and never satisfying.>>

Reagardless of specifics, Buddhist training (under
presumably wise tutelage) is normally to try one's hardest
to box things in as tightly as one can, to asphyxiate oneself
with baskets and cages, just so that one comes to realise
how stupid one is doing that.

It would have been so much nicer and easier to just go
ahead and treat everything as fluff, without further ado.
The entire Buddhist canon has no greater and profounder
wisdom than that. Of course the Buddhist canon and
Buddhist teachers in the flesh also teach technique, like
technique of meditation, but how much extra does that
buy if one already knows how to treat everything as fluff?

If one knows how to treat everything as fluff, technique
is as much fluff as everything else, too. And one doesn't
need books and teachers to treat everything as fluff.
Heaven forbid, the entire Buddhist canon is fluff.

There is nothing to it. It's all fluff.

Tang Huyen

d***@gmail.com

2005-01-31 16:49:27 UTC

Post by Tang Huyen
...
It would have been so much nicer and easier to just go
ahead and treat everything as fluff, without further ado.
The entire Buddhist canon has no greater and profounder
wisdom than that. Of course the Buddhist canon and
Buddhist teachers in the flesh also teach technique, like
technique of meditation, but how much extra does that
buy if one already knows how to treat everything as fluff?

The idea, presumably, is that it's actually very
difficult to "go ahead and treat everything as
fluff". Most of our socialization and a good
chunk of our evolution tend in the other direction!
Even if one has accepted it intellectually, that's
by far the easiest part; internalizing it into
action is orders of magnitude more difficult.
Hence all the effort, practice, etc.
And I think I believe that; most days, anyway... *8)

DC

d***@gmail.com

2005-01-31 16:06:37 UTC

Old Tang gave away his treasure words!
He must have been greatly upset.
*8)

http://www.ibiblio.org/zen/gateless-gate/27.html

DC

Tad Perry

2005-02-01 09:13:13 UTC

Post by Tang Huyen

And fluff by any other name is just fluff.

Personally, I still like to play with reality creation and creating the
exact world I want on this planet. To reach the liberation where the mind
can dream and dreams come true. First, one must not be barraged by bad
karma. One must pay one's karma and get it out of the way. Then when one
dreams of peace, peace comes. When one dreams of love, love comes. When one
dreams of friendship, friendship comes. Most people have not been socialized
in a way that allows an easy flow. However, my guidance can help anyone who
seeks earnestly. It's only because I've pruned everything back to the
essentials that this is so. Go to the Eightfold Path and be a better person.
You'll even be rewarded for it. That's my experience. If yours differs,
ignore me.

tvp

Julian

2005-02-01 12:57:57 UTC

Post by Tad Perry

Post by Tang Huyen

And fluff by any other name is just fluff.
Personally, I still like to play with reality creation and creating the
exact world I want on this planet.

Noh. I'd be greateful if you didn't mess about with our planet...
at least... that is... you have suffiecient wisdom.

Post by Tad Perry
To reach the liberation where the mind
can dream and dreams come true.

Hurry up.

Post by Tad Perry
First, one must not be barraged by bad karma.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
One must pay one's karma and get it out of the way.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
dreams of peace, peace comes. When one dreams of love, love comes. When one
dreams of friendship, friendship comes.

Noh.

Post by Tad Perry
However, my guidance can help anyone who seeks earnestly.

You cannot even help yourself.

Post by Tad Perry
It's only because I've pruned everything back to the
essentials that this is so.

You cannot help youself or others until you practivce Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
Go to the Eightfold Path and be a better person.

The 8FP is a teaching to be studies.. not a place to go.

Post by Tad Perry
You'll even be rewarded for it

By reading studyting it.

Post by Tad Perry
That's my experience. If yours differs, ignore me.

Noh, not while you are relating you experience to me.

Love God...

Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

Lazarhat

2005-02-01 17:04:43 UTC

And fluff by any other name is just fluff.
Personally, I still like to play with reality creation and creating the
exact world I want on this planet.

Noh. I'd be greateful if you didn't mess about with our planet...
at least... that is... you have suffiecient wisdom.

Post by Tad Perry
To reach the liberation where the mind
can dream and dreams come true.

Hurry up.

Post by Tad Perry
First, one must not be barraged by bad karma.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
One must pay one's karma and get it out of the way.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
dreams of peace, peace comes. When one dreams of love, love comes. When one
dreams of friendship, friendship comes.

Noh.

Post by Tad Perry
However, my guidance can help anyone who seeks earnestly.

You cannot even help yourself.

Post by Tad Perry
It's only because I've pruned everything back to the
essentials that this is so.

You cannot help youself or others until you practivce Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
Go to the Eightfold Path and be a better person.

The 8FP is a teaching to be studies.. not a place to go.

Post by Tad Perry
You'll even be rewarded for it

By reading studyting it.

Post by Tad Perry
That's my experience. If yours differs, ignore me.

Noh, not while you are relating you experience to me.
Love God...
Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

"Love God"?

What kind of Buddhist says that?

A bot programmed by Bernie (another bot).

-l

Julian Love God

2005-02-01 16:52:58 UTC

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:04:43 -0900, "Lazarhat"

And fluff by any other name is just fluff.
Personally, I still like to play with reality creation and creating the
exact world I want on this planet.

Noh. I'd be greateful if you didn't mess about with our planet...
at least... that is... you have suffiecient wisdom.

Post by Tad Perry
To reach the liberation where the mind
can dream and dreams come true.

Hurry up.

Post by Tad Perry
First, one must not be barraged by bad karma.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
One must pay one's karma and get it out of the way.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
dreams of peace, peace comes. When one dreams of love, love comes. When

one

Post by Julian

Post by Tad Perry
dreams of friendship, friendship comes.

Noh.

Post by Tad Perry
However, my guidance can help anyone who seeks earnestly.

You cannot even help yourself.

Post by Tad Perry
It's only because I've pruned everything back to the
essentials that this is so.

You cannot help youself or others until you practivce Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
Go to the Eightfold Path and be a better person.

The 8FP is a teaching to be studies.. not a place to go.

Post by Tad Perry
You'll even be rewarded for it

By reading studyting it.

Post by Tad Perry
That's my experience. If yours differs, ignore me.

Noh, not while you are relating you experience to me.
Love God...
Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

"Love God"?
What kind of Buddhist says that?

a true buddhist

Love God...

Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

Lazarhat

2005-02-01 17:53:39 UTC

Post by Julian Love God
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:04:43 -0900, "Lazarhat"

And fluff by any other name is just fluff.
Personally, I still like to play with reality creation and creating the
exact world I want on this planet.

Noh. I'd be greateful if you didn't mess about with our planet...
at least... that is... you have suffiecient wisdom.

Post by Tad Perry
To reach the liberation where the mind
can dream and dreams come true.

Hurry up.

Post by Tad Perry
First, one must not be barraged by bad karma.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
One must pay one's karma and get it out of the way.

Just practice Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
dreams of peace, peace comes. When one dreams of love, love comes. When

one

Post by Julian

Post by Tad Perry
dreams of friendship, friendship comes.

Noh.

Post by Tad Perry
However, my guidance can help anyone who seeks earnestly.

You cannot even help yourself.

Post by Tad Perry
It's only because I've pruned everything back to the
essentials that this is so.

You cannot help youself or others until you practivce Buddhism.

Post by Tad Perry
Go to the Eightfold Path and be a better person.

The 8FP is a teaching to be studies.. not a place to go.

Post by Tad Perry
You'll even be rewarded for it

By reading studyting it.

Post by Tad Perry
That's my experience. If yours differs, ignore me.

Noh, not while you are relating you experience to me.
Love God...
Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

"Love God"?
What kind of Buddhist says that?

a true buddhist
Love God...
Julian ©Juliaslan 2005

Carry on then, HAL 9000.

-l

Julian Love God

2005-02-06 07:08:52 UTC

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.religion.buddhism?start=&gvc=1

Julian Love God

2005-02-06 07:20:09 UTC

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/talk.religion.buddhism?start=&gvc=1

Julian Love God

2005-02-05 00:01:57 UTC

ccc

Sid

2005-01-30 23:36:01 UTC

<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?

"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.

It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

yelps

2005-01-30 23:38:31 UTC

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

dc

cupcake

2005-01-30 23:46:00 UTC

Re: Sessen Doji story
Reply to: [1]"yelps"
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:38:31 -0800
[2]talk.religion.buddhism,
[3]alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,
[4]alt.zen,
[5]alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
Followup to: [6]newsgroups

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

yes, i've always called it The Great Cosmic Manifestation --
which would include our puny little universe :)

yelps

2005-01-30 23:59:33 UTC

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

yes, i've always called it The Great Cosmic Manifestation --
which would include our puny little universe :)

Cosmic Manifestation is where it is at.

Say goodbye to Fluff and haphazard extinction methodology.

lol
dc

cupcake

2005-01-31 00:16:39 UTC

Re: Sessen Doji story
Reply to: [1]"yelps"
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:59:33 -0800
[2]talk.religion.buddhism,
[3]alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,
[4]alt.zen,
[5]alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
Followup to: [6]newsgroups

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

yes, i've always called it The Great Cosmic Manifestation --
which would include our puny little universe :)

Cosmic Manifestation is where it is at.
Say goodbye to Fluff and haphazard extinction methodology.

fluff and extinction is the only response that can
be made in the face of such endless proliferation :)

see: Gotama The Buddha

can you say "bhava-nirodha/Nirvana"? :)

lol
dc

yelps

2005-01-31 00:30:53 UTC

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

yes, i've always called it The Great Cosmic Manifestation --
which would include our puny little universe :)

Cosmic Manifestation is where it is at.
Say goodbye to Fluff and haphazard extinction methodology.

fluff and extinction is the only response that can
be made in the face of such endless proliferation :)
see: Gotama The Buddha
can you say "bhava-nirodha/Nirvana"? :)
Gotta stop you here. That was just a trick.

Really. The Buddha: "Sorry I had to fool you. I used Nirvana as a Skilful
Means I saw you were tired and needed a brief respite. SO I conjured up
this magic city, (of Nirvana) so you could get refreshed, now I lead you to
the real Nirvana"

In Japanese this is called, "hoben gen Nehan" the Skilful means of death.
Its real meaning is equating "Nirvana" with Death not a state one obtains.

dc

lol
dc

cupcake

2005-01-31 00:37:56 UTC

Re: Sessen Doji story
Reply to: [1]"yelps"
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:30:53 -0800
[2]talk.religion.buddhism,
[3]alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,
[4]alt.zen,
[5]alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
Followup to: [6]newsgroups

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

yes, i've always called it The Great Cosmic Manifestation --
which would include our puny little universe :)

Cosmic Manifestation is where it is at.
Say goodbye to Fluff and haphazard extinction methodology.

fluff and extinction is the only response that can
be made in the face of such endless proliferation :)
see: Gotama The Buddha
can you say "bhava-nirodha/Nirvana"? :)

Gotta stop you here. That was just a trick.
Really. The Buddha: "Sorry I had to fool you. I used Nirvana as a Skilful
Means I saw you were tired and needed a brief respite. SO I conjured up
this magic city, (of Nirvana) so you could get refreshed, now I lead you to
the real Nirvana"
In Japanese this is called, "hoben gen Nehan" the Skilful means of death.
Its real meaning is equating "Nirvana" with Death not a state one obtains.

well, if you understand the way The Great Cosmic
Manifestation works, you will know that *bhava-nirodha*
is altogether *different* from Death

(death is merely a transition from one
lifetime to another...)

see: the mechanism of Dependent Origination

lol
dc

yelps

2005-01-31 00:55:03 UTC

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

yes, i've always called it The Great Cosmic Manifestation --
which would include our puny little universe :)

Cosmic Manifestation is where it is at.
Say goodbye to Fluff and haphazard extinction methodology.

fluff and extinction is the only response that can
be made in the face of such endless proliferation :)
see: Gotama The Buddha
can you say "bhava-nirodha/Nirvana"? :)

well, if you understand the way The Great Cosmic
Manifestation works, you will know that *bhava-nirodha*
is altogether *different* from Death
(death is merely a transition from one
lifetime to another...)
see: the mechanism of Dependent Origination

Yes I know it is different. That is the point. Real Nirvana is Death and
also an expression for an enlightened world. One need not even die, were
people organized enough to cure death. People can accomplish any goal they
want when the power of the synergy kicks in. . There is no limits.

the Nirvana teaching was an expedient means. The real path is
world-affirming.

dc

lol
dc

cupcake

2005-01-31 00:59:50 UTC

Re: Sessen Doji story
Reply to: [1]"yelps"
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:55:03 -0800
[2]talk.religion.buddhism,
[3]alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan,
[4]alt.zen,
[5]alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
Followup to: [6]newsgroups

Post by Sid
<sorry, DC...>

Post by R***@aol.com
i am not a tibetan buddhist.
i took refuge in the tibetan tradition..."

hahaha!
Denial lesson in two sentences?
"American Buddhism"?
Jesus H. Christ, let's hope not.
It'd be like "Tibetan Buddhism"...

I like "Cosmic Buddhism," at least that wouldn't leave out the parrellel
universes.

yes, i've always called it The Great Cosmic Manifestation --
which would include our puny little universe :)

Cosmic Manifestation is where it is at.
Say goodbye to Fluff and haphazard extinction methodology.

fluff and extinction is the only response that can
be made in the face of such endless proliferation :)
see: Gotama The Buddha
can you say "bhava-nirodha/Nirvana"? :)

well, if you understand the way The Great Cosmic
Manifestation works, you will know that *bhava-nirodha*
is altogether *different* from Death
(death is merely a transition from one
lifetime to another...)
see: the mechanism of Dependent Origination

Yes I know it is different. That is the point. Real Nirvana is Death and
also an expression for an enlightened world. One need not even die, were
people organized enough to cure death. People can accomplish any goal they
want when the power of the synergy kicks in. . There is no limits.
the Nirvana teaching was an expedient means. The real path is
world-affirming.

is that what Sun Lotus is saying?

lol
dc

cupcake

2005-01-31 01:07:40 UTC