Discussion:
The Astral Body - Quotations by Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz
(too old to reply)
r***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 07:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Organized Quotations on the Astral Body, Enlightenment, Buddhism,
Meditation and Mysticism.
By Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz

Main Page:

http://www.ramaquotes.com/index.html

The Astral Body:

http://www.ramaquotes.com/html/astral_body.html

You perceive yourself as being solid and physical, limited to a body.
You are made up of light, endless mind. The way you see life is a
limited state of mind.

We have a body, but we also have a subtle body, a body of energy that
looks like our physical body, if you could see it. The subtle physical
body is made up of energy, of light that vibrates at a very, very high
rate so the human physical eyes can't see it.

When you see someone's aura, it is an outer reflection of the subtle
physical body. It is about the same shape as the physical body,
although it can become thousands of things.

Inwardly the sun also has an energy field, it has an aura, so does the
earth, so does the moon, and so do all the planets. We're affected by
those auras. It's not something that you really want to reason out.

Just as we have a physical body, so we have an etheric body and the
etheric body is made up of energy, of light.

Just as your physical body is composed of tissue, organs, bones, and
different parts, so your subtle physical body has many different parts.


There are seven primary centers, junctions, within the subtle physical
body. These are called the seven chakras.

The subtle physical body is made up of strands of luminous energy, and
the energies are flowing through them constantly in the etheric plane.
Above the subtle body is the causal body.

All of us have an aura, a body of energy linked to different planes of
awareness. Some have the ability to access more planes of awareness
then others because of past lives, because of practice in this life.

Just as there are primary colors from which all of the others come
forth when they're combined, so there are primary vibratory qualities
of energy and light within us.

The subtle physical body protects the body's physical health. It is the
radiant life force that is you. When you get sick, it is because there
is a problem with your subtle physical body.

The astral is the supporting ground for the physical dimension.

Our physical health is dependent upon energy. We have a short lifespan
compared with past Yuga's.

When something goes wrong with the body of energy that surrounds and
protects your physical body, it will later show up in your physical
body. The problem always starts in the subtle physical, and then
manifests in the physical.

The integrity of the subtle body is totally important. As the subtle
body wears, we get sick. That is why, eventually, the body dies - it's
because something happens to the subtle body.

When you see a deterioration in the skin or the hair particularly,
you're having problems with the subtle body. You're taking in too
much bad energy. You're just on the wrong circuit.

If there are problems with the subtle physical body, it's very hard
for the kundalini to flow.

The subtle physical body protects the body's physical health. It is the
radiant life force that is you.

As we grow up, we are exposed to hate and greed and anger and jealousy
and peanut brittle and all kinds of things, our subtle body erodes. The
subtle body must be intact to transmit the kundalini.

A child is imprinted not by simply teaching. But their attention is
like soft clay. The attention field of adults is stratified. They are
like hard clay and we push them on each side of the child's attention
field.

We are all carrying the imprints of our most ancient ancestors. Not
simply in the genetic code, but in the imprints of attention that are
passed on.

You can move in and through the astral worlds once you have gained
control of your subtle body. The astral worlds are the back corridors
of eternity!

Some people travel to other dimensions in their astral bodies when they
meditate. But astral traveling doesn't bring a person lasting
happiness. If astral traveling is not done properly, it can be quite
dangerous.

The astral dimensions afford you opportunities to have experiences and
gain insights into the structural nature of how dimensions are made up
and phased together.

There's really no pain in the realm of the higher astral. A lot of
spirits are playing mini-golf having a good time.

-Zen Master Rama

*******************************************************************

Note: There are many religious intolerant people on the internet that
hate Buddhism or new ideas.

These people have wrongly accused Dr. Frederick Lenz, Rama, of leading
a cult. They have engaged in constant hate-speech against anyone who
posts favorable information regarding Zen Master Rama. You will
probably see their silly and spiteful posts beneath this page of
quotations.

The source of these misguided individual's hate speech is information
from:

http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/Lies_Behind_Bigotry/

This group, CAN, was dissolved in court for numerous illegal activities
such as the forceable kidnappings of women, lying, and fraud. It was
this group that started the myth in California that Zen Master Rama,
Dr. Frederick Lenz was a cult leader. They did this primarily to scare
parents into paying $50,000 to kidnap their adult children.

I know of three individuals (two women) who were forcefully kidnapped
by these people, simply because they had rich parents, studied with
Rama, and their parents beleived the lies told by these court-affirmed
criminals.

The people on these internet newsgroups that promote hate speech
against Rama are also fond of quoting the following source:

http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/dbase/bios/rross.html

This individual, Rick Ross, has been found guilty of many crimes, he is
kidnapper who simply attacks spiritual groups and kidnaps followers as
a way to make money.

In reality, Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz was against cults and
guru worship. For Rama's own view on the cult phenomena and the false
acusations made against him, we suggest:

http://www.ramaquotes.com/html/critique_of_cults_and_media.html


Another falsehood spread on these newsgroups, by those who engage in
religious intolerance, is that Zen Master Rama's students are trying to
make money and recruit through this website:

http://www.ramaquotes.com/index.html

In reality, we only offer these quotes as education or simply as fun.
There is nothing to join.
Thank You for your religious tolerance in advance:
--------------------------------------------------

"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or
admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." -
Thomas Jefferson


"Toleration is good for all, or it is good for none." - Edmond Burke

"Tolerance implies no lack of commitment to one's own beliefs. Rather
it condemns the oppression or persecution of others." - John F. Kennedy

"Laws alone cannot secure freedom of expression; in order that every
man present his views without penalty there must be a spirit of
tolerance in the entire population." - Albert Einstein
j***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 07:41:41 UTC
Permalink
These are great quotes on the astral/subtle body. I have read and
practiced these teachings and they has been very beneficial for my
astral body and awareness level. I have taught this information in
many classes on Buddhism and other people have appreciated and
benefited from it.
Julian
2005-11-03 10:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@yahoo.com
These are great quotes on the astral/subtle body. I have read and
practiced these teachings and they has been very beneficial for my
astral body and awareness level. I have taught this information in
many classes on Buddhism and other people have appreciated and
benefited from it.
Which of the 108,000 teachings of the Buddha
concerns 'astral bodies?.'
Have you chapter and verse?
r***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 10:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.

vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
Julian
2005-11-03 13:08:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.
vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
Before or after I macrame some lentil sandalas... racist?
Bev Thornton
2005-11-03 16:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.
That's not enough. Where are the Buddha's teachings about the astral body?
Post by r***@yahoo.com
vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
Just exactly what is it that you are translating as 'astral body' and what
does that mean to you?

By the way, chapter and verse is a concern of Bible study. In Buddhism,
it's sutra and stanza.

So, exactly which stanzas in which sutras refer to astral body?
--
<***@xoxy.net> Support: <http://www.massiveeffort.org/>

More than those who hate you, more than all your enemies,
undisciplined mind does greater harm.
Daryl
2005-11-03 16:46:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev Thornton
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.
That's not enough. Where are the Buddha's teachings about the astral body?
Post by r***@yahoo.com
vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
Just exactly what is it that you are translating as 'astral body' and what
does that mean to you?
I attended a temple for some time that had a mandala type
thing behind a smallish Buddha statue. It was electric
and lit up and turned so that it seemed as if radiant
beams of light flowed outward from the Buddha. It was
quite pretty.

They used it during services for children.
--
Daryl
Travellin' Bored of Rama
2005-11-03 17:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl
I attended a temple for some time that had a mandala type
thing behind a smallish Buddha statue. It was electric
and lit up and turned so that it seemed as if radiant
beams of light flowed outward from the Buddha. It was
quite pretty.
They used it during services for children.
--
Daryl
Pretty lights !!!!
Ben
2005-11-03 17:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl
Post by Bev Thornton
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.
That's not enough. Where are the Buddha's teachings about the astral body?
Post by r***@yahoo.com
vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
Just exactly what is it that you are translating as 'astral body' and what
does that mean to you?
I attended a temple for some time that had a mandala type
thing behind a smallish Buddha statue. It was electric
and lit up and turned so that it seemed as if radiant
beams of light flowed outward from the Buddha. It was
quite pretty.
They used it during services for children.
You left out the "Punk".

They used it during services for children, punk!

Ben
--
Squirting rubbing alcohol up your
nose is rather unpleasant.
-Sanford, ABSFG
dt
2005-11-03 18:23:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl
Post by Bev Thornton
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.
That's not enough. Where are the Buddha's teachings about the astral body?
Post by r***@yahoo.com
vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
Just exactly what is it that you are translating as 'astral body' and what
does that mean to you?
I attended a temple for some time that had a mandala type
thing behind a smallish Buddha statue. It was electric
and lit up and turned so that it seemed as if radiant
beams of light flowed outward from the Buddha. It was
quite pretty.
They used it during services for children.
Well, *that* doesn't seem fair!

DT

http://www.thehungersite.com/
Bev Thornton
2005-11-03 18:50:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Daryl
I attended a temple for some time that had a mandala type
thing behind a smallish Buddha statue. It was electric
and lit up and turned so that it seemed as if radiant
beams of light flowed outward from the Buddha. It was
quite pretty.
They used it during services for children.
I like the crystal statues that sit on a lighted base, the light shines up
through them and breaks up into many colours.
--
<***@xoxy.net> Support: <http://sos-childrensvillages.org/>

Weeds are the bane of fields,
hatred the bane of mankind.
lee
2005-11-03 23:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev Thornton
Post by Daryl
I attended a temple for some time that had a mandala type
thing behind a smallish Buddha statue. It was electric
and lit up and turned so that it seemed as if radiant
beams of light flowed outward from the Buddha. It was
quite pretty.
They used it during services for children.
I like the crystal statues that sit on a lighted base, the light shines up
through them and breaks up into many colours.
Hi Bev,

Has anyone asked you the absfg questions?

We have them now but need to try them out on a willing participant?

/lee
Bev Thornton
2005-11-03 23:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by lee
Has anyone asked you the absfg questions?
No.
Post by lee
We have them now but need to try them out on a willing participant?
You can if you want, but whether you'll get any answers is unknowable.
--
<***@xoxy.net> Support: <http://www.antislavery.org/>
<http://macscan.securemac.com/>

Forever cut-off habitual tendencies of hate.
m***@aol.com
2005-11-04 01:56:57 UTC
Permalink
Chan, Namaste means: My soul recognizes your soul

Why did Chan & SOB bring Sick Rick Ross, the cash kidnapper in? What
poor insight you & SOB have! Is the following your kind of guy?

Why does Sick rick only kidnap adult offspring from the wealthy who are
willing to pay for his "services"?

He and his looser buddies should be in prison,

tattooed with identifiers like: "I'm Buba's Bitch"

One of my friends "Karen" a very successful & attractive 5' 2'', 30
year old woman whose parents were wealthy DR.s, told me & others the
following:

Karen had met with her father for a meal at a restaurant & when her
father said that; she should accompany him to his car for a gift, she
went with her dad to the parking lot, as any child would.

When a van with no windows opened it's doors, some big burly guys
grabbed and grappled with her!

She yelled for her fathers assistance,
but to no avail !!! Imagine how you would feel in this situation?

Her neurotic Jewish parents paid Sick rick's friends and out of work
prison buddies to hold her in a sleazy motel with the windows nailed
shut for 10 days. These sleazy scumbags forced Karen to have these men
accompany her to the bathroom & displayed porn hoping to get her horny,
so that they could have their way with her!

Karen was traumatized to say the least!

Besides the destruction of family trust that every person except Karen
has, except that is for wealthy Ben who was also held in a family guest
house under similar circumstances for days, until he too feigned
compliance. Ben faked agreement to save his mom money & continued to
study with Rama as did Karen.

Another kidnaping was of an old Catholic "Benedictine" Nun from the
Northeast who was kidnapped under similar circumstances, after her
wealthy family paid these pathetic thugs for her abduction too, in an
attempt to inherit her money, it backfired too, as all of Sick rick &
his friends plans do!

Lawsuits from kidnapee's who had to testify against their parents
(Could you do that?) resulted in the bankruptcy of the "Cult Awareness
Network (CAN)", their telephone numbers & website, was now the property
of educated religious leaders who parents could now call on for
logical, not illegal advice, on any spiritual disagreements that they
may have with their friends & family, without a monetary incentive for
kidnaping!

Sick rick and his sleazy comrades have probably been torturing since
before the Spanish inquisition, draining spiritual seekers throughout
time, of their vital life-force, to supplement their own scraggly
existence with similar scams! Sounds like Sick rick & his buddies have
been to Gitmo, Abu Gharab, etc., raping the innocent with chemical
lights, when they can no longer force them selves on the chained
innocent anymore?

Not that I am interested in Sick rick evangelical ideology but; how
rational is it for losers to believe in the following:

"the Star Trek theory" where evolution, fossil records, science, art &
world history beyond 7,000-10,000 years ago are disregarded in place of
the (ST) theory

"We all just beamed down, man"

& anyone who disagrees with that stupidity is going to hell(s).

No Sick rick, it is you & your sick buddies who force themselves on
defenseless women, who are perpetually in hell, that's why you sicko's
are so opposed to a woman's Constitutional right to choose.

Their mothers obviously & instinctively feel a sicko like Sick rick
trying to incarnate & preemptively choose wisely!.

No wonder 52% of all pregnancies naturally end in miscarriage!

Sick rick & his prison buddies are probably escapees from hell, they
should go home & worship with their satanic cults, where they feel at
home, back into the depths of hell. Sick rick, I relish meeting with
you on my turf, if your not yet in prison again, you will be soon, that
is a promise from my friends, Karen, Ben, the Catholic Nun and all of
the many other peoples lives that you have ruined for your pay!
j***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 20:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Bev, see my post, currently #18, for "stanzas and sutras". The Tibetan
Vajrayana teachings are full of descriptions of spiritual practices and
their effects on the astral/subtle body, and more importantly, how the
practices and energy completely transforms the awareness of an
individual. These practices are so strong that they can transform your
awareness, not just for this life, but for many lives to come. We do
believe in reincarnation, after all.
Bev Thornton
2005-11-03 21:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Bev, see my post, currently #18, for "stanzas and sutras".
You're missing the sunyata of newsgroups, how it appear to you is not how
it appears to others. The numbering is unique to your view of the
messages.
Post by j***@yahoo.com
The Tibetan Vajrayana teachings are full of descriptions of spiritual
practices and their effects on the astral/subtle body, and more
importantly, how the practices and energy completely transforms the
awareness of an individual.
The astral body of Western Theosophy is one thing, Buddhist teachings on
subtle body are another; illusory body, rainbow body, those are all
different things, not the same.
Post by j***@yahoo.com
These practices are so strong that they can transform your
awareness, not just for this life, but for many lives to come. We do
believe in reincarnation, after all.
Yes, but the thing is--what is reincarnated? Christian souls? Hindu atma?
--
<***@xoxy.net> Support: <http://www.fardasl.org/>
<http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/lung/flu.html>

Enveloped in darkness, don't you look for a lamp?
c***@yahoo.com
2005-11-04 02:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev Thornton
You're missing the sunyata of newsgroups, how it appear to you is not how
it appears to others. The numbering is unique to your view of the
messages.
Bev I think your attacks of Zen Master Rama miss the shunyata. You
really cling to the desire to prove: "My Buddhism is better than your
Buddhism"...like a little girl comparing christmas gifts. Well Bev, I
personally don't know whose path is better. I guess you do and that
type of linear Western thinking is not my style. Have fun with it, Ms.
Sunyata.
Post by Bev Thornton
The astral body of Western Theosophy is one thing, Buddhist teachings on
subtle body are another; illusory body, rainbow body, those are all
different things, not the same.
Your wrong bev, and your too anthropomorphic. The non-phycial energy
of a homo-sapein is not determined by the language you label them in.
American Indians, Wall Street Execs, all are human...but they have
another side. Every culture has talked about this side, the energy
body, only modern science laughs at it.

These quotes of Rama are on the sublte body of Buddhism, they are on
Castaneda's luminous body, they are about the Halo's of Catholic
saints...because all are human, all have energy bodies.

Bev is not dharmic. She seeks to attack my teacher. If she was she
would have complained to the links I gave Daryl of other Buddhists that
use the term Astral Body in Buddhism:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=astral+body+buddhism

She just is jealous that Rama was a great dharma teacher.
Post by Bev Thornton
Yes, but the thing is--what is reincarnated? Christian souls? Hindu atma?
Bev is an aggregate of emtpy dharmas that have a tendancy to hate
certain spiritual paths. Bev "clings" to her dream to push Dr. Lenz's
teachigs out of Buddhism forever. Just as Hitler clinged to pushing
out jewish thought forever from Europe...both forms of clinging are
adharmic and will lead to suffering in this and the next world.

Namaste'
Messer Xin
2005-11-04 03:35:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Post by Bev Thornton
You're missing the sunyata of newsgroups, how it appear to you is not how
it appears to others. The numbering is unique to your view of the
messages.
Bev I think your attacks of Zen Master Rama miss the shunyata. You
really cling to the desire to prove: "My Buddhism is better than your
Buddhism"...like a little girl comparing christmas gifts. Well Bev, I
personally don't know whose path is better. I guess you do and that
type of linear Western thinking is not my style. Have fun with it, Ms.
Sunyata.
Seems like you don't know how Shunyata fits in Mahayana Buddhism.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Post by Bev Thornton
The astral body of Western Theosophy is one thing, Buddhist teachings on
subtle body are another; illusory body, rainbow body, those are all
different things, not the same.
Your wrong bev, and your too anthropomorphic. The non-phycial energy
of a homo-sapein is not determined by the language you label them in.
American Indians, Wall Street Execs, all are human...but they have
another side. Every culture has talked about this side, the energy
body, only modern science laughs at it.
No argument with subtle body theories of other systems. Just that it doesn't
play a big part in Buddhist practice, outside of centering awareness in
various meditations. But the "astral body" is not an important part of
teaching, as it obviously is in Lenz's system.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
These quotes of Rama are on the sublte body of Buddhism, they are on
Castaneda's luminous body, they are about the Halo's of Catholic
saints...because all are human, all have energy bodies.
You're spending a lot of time trying to prove something essentially
irrelevant.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Bev is not dharmic.
Why do you judge her that?
Post by c***@yahoo.com
She seeks to attack my teacher.
Ah! That's why!
Post by c***@yahoo.com
If she was she
would have complained to the links I gave Daryl of other Buddhists that
Why complain to anybody? They are utterly free to be as misguided as you.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=astral+body+buddhism
Haven't had a chance to check them out yet. But not every Buddhist source has
the best choice for terminology. But real Buddhists know what they really
mean.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
She just is jealous that Rama was a great dharma teacher.
So many night, while we were enjoying white wine alfresco while the moon
shown on the river, she intimated just this sentiment to me.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Post by Bev Thornton
Yes, but the thing is--what is reincarnated? Christian souls? Hindu atma?
Bev is an aggregate of emtpy dharmas that have a tendancy to hate
certain spiritual paths. Bev "clings" to her dream to push Dr. Lenz's
teachigs out of Buddhism forever. Just as Hitler clinged to pushing
out jewish thought forever from Europe...both forms of clinging are
adharmic and will lead to suffering in this and the next world.
Namaste'
Sure.

---Messer Xin
--
Xin is an abusive, light-hating moron,
who couldn't even start his own conversation.

---jazzymike108, disciple of ZM Rama
m***@aol.com
2005-11-04 04:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Xin,
How about a discussion on the substance or "suchness" of Buddhism,

instead of your ... copy others work & post... copy others work &
post...

What is your Buddhist philosophy? (other than lazyness)
stumper
2005-11-04 16:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@aol.com
Xin,
How about a discussion on the substance or "suchness" of Buddhism,
instead of your ... copy others work & post... copy others work &
post...
What is your Buddhist philosophy? (other than lazyness)
Did the Buddha told us to be rude to others?
--
~Stumper
Messer Xin
2005-11-04 18:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@aol.com
Xin,
How about a discussion on the substance or "suchness" of Buddhism,
Sure thing!
Post by m***@aol.com
instead of your ... copy others work & post... copy others work &
post...
Rather steady pattern you have there, of accusing others of what you do
yourself.
Post by m***@aol.com
What is your Buddhist philosophy? (other than lazyness)
Philosophy is not as important as practice, is my philosophy. My practice is
to pierce the curls of self-delusion that trick me into trying to be other
than I am, or thinking there's something wrong with *that*! If you do
anything resembling my practice, you will recognize what I do. If not, this
is probably misleading.

---Messer Xin
--
Luke Clossey:
I take comfort in the principle that anyone who is offended by speech
spoken without intent to offend deserves to be offended.

Daryl Kinsman:
Heh, that should be the golden rule of political incorrectness.
c***@yahoo.com
2005-11-04 04:35:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Messer Xin
Why complain to anybody? They are utterly free to be as misguided as you
Messer you are the misguided one. The aura around paintings of the
Buddha is the crown chakra...of the astral body, subtle body, body of
energy. Do you reject Buddhist art?

You claim the concept of a non-physical energy body is adharmic and
non-Buddhist?

How foolish.

You support kidnappers and bomb-threat artists and call us misguided?

Very Orwellian.

Ch'an if you want "misguided" look in a mirror. Here are some links to
your Buddhist "authority" on American teachers, good ole' Rick Ross:

http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/dbase/bios/rross.html

http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/false_exp/rossr1.html

*Cha'an and SOB quoted the above criminal as an authority on the
American Buddhist teacher Zen Master Rama, Best selling author of:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312141475/002-8085602-2111245?v=glance

and:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0312181795/002-8085602-2111245?v=glance

The Adharmic spider Cha'an stamps out Buddhist teaching in America and
relies on a criminal, Rick Ross, as his source...may he forever rot in
the lowest hell realms!

PHAT PHAT PHAT

OM MANI PADME HUM
Julian
2005-11-04 16:11:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bev Thornton
You're missing the sunyata of newsgroups, how it appear to you is not how
it appears to others. The numbering is unique to your view of the
messages.
http://iratescotsman.com/products/cretintracker/
dt
2005-11-04 17:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Julian
Post by Bev Thornton
You're missing the sunyata of newsgroups, how it appear to you is not how
it appears to others. The numbering is unique to your view of the
messages.
http://iratescotsman.com/products/cretintracker/
First time I ever wished for a Mac...

DT
http://www.thehungersite.com/
Bev Thornton
2005-11-05 06:46:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Bev I think your attacks of Zen Master Rama miss the shunyata. You
really cling to the desire to prove: "My Buddhism is better than your
Buddhism"...like a little girl comparing christmas gifts. Well Bev, I
personally don't know whose path is better. I guess you do and that
type of linear Western thinking is not my style. Have fun with it, Ms.
Sunyata.
Here's some more sunyata for you--I'm male.

It's important to differentiate between assumptions and knowledge.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Your wrong bev, and your too anthropomorphic. The non-phycial energy
of a homo-sapein is not determined by the language you label them in.
American Indians, Wall Street Execs, all are human...but they have
another side. Every culture has talked about this side, the energy
body, only modern science laughs at it.
It's not a matter of another side. It is a matter of what is relative and
what is absolute. All the sides are relative.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
These quotes of Rama are on the sublte body of Buddhism, they are on
Castaneda's luminous body, they are about the Halo's of Catholic
saints...because all are human, all have energy bodies.
Whatever Castaneda wrote about was just something he invented, another
Lobsang Rampa there, a charlatan. The Christian halo is a representation
of divine grace, not of some supposed additional body. They picked-up the
representation from the Greeks, the same place the Buddhists got it.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Bev is not dharmic. She seeks to attack my teacher. If she was she
would have complained to the links I gave Daryl of other Buddhists that
You are misunderstanding translations. The mind-made body is just
that--mind-made. It's not the astral body of the theosophists nor the
eternal soul of the Judeo-Christian traditions. Subtle body is something
else again, part of the material body. Both illusory body and dream body
are just that--illusory dreams.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
She just is jealous that Rama was a great dharma teacher.
Who is she?

Jealousy is not an issue. What is important is concern that dharma not be
obscured.

Frederick Lenz III Ph.D. obscured dharma and you continue to promote that
obscuration here and with things like a web-site that presents newage
notions as Buddhist truths.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Bev is an aggregate of emtpy dharmas that have a tendancy to hate
certain spiritual paths. Bev "clings" to her dream to push Dr. Lenz's
teachigs out of Buddhism forever. Just as Hitler clinged to pushing
out jewish thought forever from Europe...both forms of clinging are
adharmic and will lead to suffering in this and the next world.
Tell it to the spiritualists who presume a next world to go to.
Post by c***@yahoo.com
Namaste'
You can't write as you do and namaste too with any sincerity at all.
--
<***@xoxy.net> Support: <http://sos-childrensvillages.org/>

Who does not retaliate wins a battle hard to win.
Forbearance alone is victorious.
Ch'an Fu
2005-11-03 22:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@yahoo.com
Bev, see my post, currently #18, for "stanzas and sutras". The Tibetan
Vajrayana teachings are full of descriptions of spiritual practices and
their effects on the astral/subtle body, and more importantly, how the
practices and energy completely transforms the awareness of an
individual. These practices are so strong that they can transform your
awareness, not just for this life, but for many lives to come. We do
believe in reincarnation, after all.
"we"?
mouse in your pocket?
Travellin' Bored of Rama
2005-11-03 16:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.
vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
You mean The Heart Sutta where the phrase "profound illumination," is
used... I don't think it is taken to mean astral body there
Buttplug...nice try though....

Too bad your master isn't around to offer more sage advice.... oh
yes,that's right he's in an animal hell realm for killing
himself.Possibly that explains the dog collar,he was getting dressed
for the trip!
JMW
2005-11-03 18:20:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Travellin' Bored of Rama
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Julian, have you ever seen a mandala...they have the buddha depicted in
a golden light, that is from the thousand pedal lotus of light, his
crown center. You should also check out the perfection of wisdom for
descriptions of emmanations coming out of the buddha from different
energy centers to many, many different wrolds.
vulture peak sermon, perfection of wisdom....find the chapter and verse
yourself...westerner.
You mean The Heart Sutta where the phrase "profound illumination," is
used... I don't think it is taken to mean astral body there
Buttplug...nice try though....
Too bad your master isn't around to offer more sage advice.... oh
yes,that's right he's in an animal hell realm for killing
himself.Possibly that explains the dog collar,he was getting dressed
for the trip!
I wonder if Dr. Lenz could astrally project his essence of mind to
answer some questions on samsara. For instance, how many karma points
do you score for feeding your dog an overdose of phenobarbital simply
because you are tired of living?
r***@gmail.com
2005-11-03 13:53:18 UTC
Permalink
"ramaquo" seems to be posting the same spam to mislead people at this
discussion group thread, like another poster named "curlywade."

However, attacking me personally won't change the facts reported by
Associated Press, the NY Times and other New York state newspapers
about Frederick Lenz aka "Rama."

See http://www.rickross.com/groups/lenz.html

The so-called "Cult Awareness Network" (CAN) linked by "ramaquo" is
actually controlled and essentially run by the Church of Scientology,"
not considered a reliable source by most people looking for objective
news.

The report authored by the CAN folks is hardly mainstream media and can
be misleading.

To demonstrate this I have posted a response available through the
Internet since 1998.

See http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/Scien47.html

"Tolerance," "toleration" and "freedom of expression" as defined by
Burke, kennedy and Einstein requires both the freedom to express
beliefs and the toleration of those that don't agree with you and may
express criticism. And that freedom to ask critical questions and
disagree is guaranteed within the First Amendment of the US
Constitution.

Rick A. Ross
www.rickross.com
j***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 20:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Rick has made a living out denying people their religious rights. He
is hardly a religious or spiritual authority. His opinion of what is
"spiritual" is only defined by his latest paying client. Rama taught
the path to Enlightenment, which is the same path as that taught by the
Buddha, Christ, Lao Tzu, and other Enlightened Teachers. Fortunately
for spiritual seekers of all traditions (which Rick has tried to
repress), the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights guarantees freedom
of religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech..."
Julian
2005-11-03 22:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Rama has made a living by selling people their religious right.
He is hardly a religious or spiritual authority. His opinion of what is
"spiritual" is only defined by his latest paying client. Rama sold
the path to Enlightenment, which is the same path as that taught by the
Buddha, Christ, Lao Tzu, and other Enlightened Teachers, freely.
Fortunately for spiritual seekers of all traditions (which Rama has tried to
repress), the First Amendment to the Bill of Rights guarantees freedom
of religion. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment
of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of speech..."
And yet you wish to engage others to build on quicksand. Cheers.
r***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 20:48:19 UTC
Permalink
The Rick Ross Instituite of Kidnapping, Criminal Activity and Mental
illness

1. Fact. Rick is ugly:

http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/dbase/bios/rross.htm

2. Not only is Rick ugly but he was found guilty of kidnapping by a
Seattle jury in 1995. Ugly Rick forgets that it was the US Courts that
found him a criminal scumbag, and not Scientology. Scientology only
reports it because no one else cares about Ugly Rick.

3. Ugly Rick hung-out with CAN (Cult Awareness Network). This group
tried to paint many smaller spiritual groups as evil cults to get
$50,000 from parents to kidnap their adult kids. This group was also
broken up by US Courts for their anti-American activities against both
Christian and Non-Christian groups:

http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/Lies_Behind_Bigotry/

4. Ugly Rick and his freinds have created the myth that Zen Master
Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz, was a cult leader. They did this in
California in the late 1980's as a way to get money from rich parents
to kidnap their adult children. I know of 3 people who this happened
to, all intelligent people who were successful, but had rich paranoid
or very strict parents.

5. Ugly Rick is morally outraged that Rama chose to die with his dogs.
Ok, that might not be a Western way to do it in the most moral sense;
but Rick the Kidnapper being outraged? Rick you are a Kidnapper, you
don't have the moral authority. Rama's desire to leave this world with
his dogs would be understood by some cultures and not others, but Ugly
Rick the Kidnapper caring about morality. What a joke. Your crimes
Rick are a thousand times worse. Worry about your own moral depravity
you adharmic snake.

Ugly Rick, where are you kiss ass boyfreinds Scion of Rick Ross and
Cha'ng Fu? The little spiders ran away I guess...when their daddy and
guru Rick Ross turned out to be convicted thug and ugly dude...

boo hooo

For my teacher, Zen Master Rama's own view of cults, check out this
link:

http://www.ramaquotes.com/html/critique_of_cults_and_media.html

If you are sick of listening to Ugly Rick the Kidnapper decide what is
valid Buddhism for you, check out this site for interesting and
sometimes funny Buddhist quotes:

http://www.ramaquotes.com/

Here is a final quote for Ugly Rick the Kidnapper:

"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or
admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." -
Thomas Jefferson
Daryl
2005-11-03 15:42:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Organized Quotations on the Astral Body, Enlightenment, Buddhism,
Meditation and Mysticism.
By Zen Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz
[snip]
Post by r***@yahoo.com
You perceive yourself as being solid and physical, limited to a body.
You are made up of light, endless mind. The way you see life is a
limited state of mind.
We have a body, but we also have a subtle body, a body of energy that
looks like our physical body, if you could see it. The subtle physical
body is made up of energy, of light that vibrates at a very, very high
rate so the human physical eyes can't see it.
[snip again]
Post by r***@yahoo.com
*******************************************************************
Note: There are many religious intolerant people on the internet that
hate Buddhism or new ideas.
By all means do not listen to people on the Internet.
Do an objective study of your own. It's not difficult.

Go around town and find 10 Buddhist temples and ask 10
Buddhists priests, monks or zen masters about vibrating
astral bodies of light.

Go to the local universities and find the local professors
of religious studies or eastern religions and ask them
about how Zen or Buddhism regards astral bodies of light
that vibrate at a very high rate.

Then check back into Frederick "Zen Master Rama" Lenz and
see if he sounds anything at all like a real Zen master
or any other kind of Buddhist. And check back into the
people on the Internet and see which ones sound like they
are within the realm of Buddhism or Zen and which ones
sound like they are something else wrapping themselves in
Zen and Buddhism in order to borrow some credibility.

There's no need at all to merely believe the words of
people on the Internet.
--
Daryl

P.S. The DC Comics superhero named "The Flash" used to
vibrate at a very high rate. That would let him pass
through solid objects and even enter other dimensions.
j***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 20:42:57 UTC
Permalink
I like the scientific approach. When we talk about auras, energy, or
"psychic phenomena", we are talking from the point of a practitioner.
The writings of Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa and Milarepa (Enlightened
Teachers from Tibet) are full of discussions about mystical practices
and their transformative effect on the astral body and attention field
of the practitioner. I recommend "Tibet's Great Yogi Milarepa", by
Evans-Wentz, which is the autobiography of Milarpa. For detailed
practices, read "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying", by Sogyal
Rinpoche. Many books of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, a Vajrayana Teacher,
detail how to train the subtle body, and what to expect from each
practice. I would also recommend that anyone interested in learning
about Power, Higher Dimensions, and Enlightenment find a qualified
spiritual teacher, and learn from them. It is a great idea to talk to
the professors at Naropa University (www.naropa.edu), in Boulder,
Colorado. After reading the books and taking some courses, come back
to www.ramaquotes.com and do your own comparison.
r***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 22:14:41 UTC
Permalink
By all means, fellow seekers, don't listen to Daryl or "merely believe"
his foolish words. Daryl doesn't understand Buddhism, so there is no
reason to waste your time going to ten buddhist temples and making a
fool over yourself over the poser Daryl.

The Astral, Etheric, Energy body is well known in Buddhism.

Daryl should star in a new movie "Buddhist Poser" or maybe "40-Year Old
Buddhist Virgin."


Facts:
--------------------

Then Mahamati said to the Blessed One [buddha]: You have spoken of an
astral-body, a "mind-vision-body" (manomayakaya) which the Bodhisattvas
are able to assume, as being one of the fruits of self-realization of
Noble Wisdom: pray tell us, Blessed One, what is meant by such a
transcendental body?

http://www.onelittleangel.com/wisdom/quotes/philo.asp?mc=22

As the sort of previous lifetimes memory fade a bit, and it can take a
few days or a week or two, because you are continuously in this dream
state, then the more deeper energy you have about yourself starts to
predominate. If you have a deep identity with being a woman, then you
will have feminine astral body. If you have a deep identity as being a
make, then a male body.

http://www.buddhistconsulting.com/Teachings/basics2.html


Tibetan yoga employs a simplified version of the metaphysical structure
that is used in Hindu yoga. According to the Tibetan scheme there are
three realms to consider in spiritual practice. These correspond to the
Emanation Body (this world), the Enjoyment Body (the astral dimension),
and the Truth Body (a dimension that is much deeper--that is, much more
subtle--than the astral).

http://www.buddhistinformation.com/tibetan/what_is_tibetan_buddhism.htm

---------------

Daryl obviously isn't going to write each of these websites and
complain about the use of an Astral body. His astral ignorance was just
a front for his Nazi-ism and religious intolerance. He just hates Zen
Master Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz.

Daryl if your concern of Astral Bodies are dharmic, then email these
web-sites the same complaints and post for us the results.

Daryl's photo will be in the wikipedia under "Buddhist Poser".

Namaste.
Ch'an Fu
2005-11-03 22:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@yahoo.com
Namaste.
This means "no mo sticky" in tibetan, y'know...
c***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 22:21:06 UTC
Permalink
By all means don't listen to Daryl!

By all means, fellow seekers, don't listen to Daryl or "merely believe"
his foolish words. Daryl doesn't understand Buddhism, so there is no
reason to waste your time going to ten buddhist temples and making a
fool of yourself over the Buddhist poser Daryl.

The Astral, Etheric, Energy body is well known in Buddhism.

Daryl should star in a new movie "Buddhist Poser" or maybe "40-Year Old
Buddhist Virgin."


Facts:
--------------------

Then Mahamati said to the Blessed One [buddha]: You have spoken of an
astral-body, a "mind-vision-body" (manomayakaya) which the Bodhisattvas
are able to assume, as being one of the fruits of self-realization of
Noble Wisdom: pray tell us, Blessed One, what is meant by such a
transcendental body?

http://www.onelittleangel.com/wisdom/quotes/philo.asp?mc=22

As the sort of previous lifetimes memory fade a bit, and it can take a
few days or a week or two, because you are continuously in this dream
state, then the more deeper energy you have about yourself starts to
predominate. If you have a deep identity with being a woman, then you
will have feminine astral body. If you have a deep identity as being a
make, then a male body.

http://www.buddhistconsulting.com/Teachings/basics2.html


Tibetan yoga employs a simplified version of the metaphysical structure
that is used in Hindu yoga. According to the Tibetan scheme there are
three realms to consider in spiritual practice. These correspond to the
Emanation Body (this world), the Enjoyment Body (the astral dimension),
and the Truth Body (a dimension that is much deeper--that is, much more
subtle--than the astral).

http://www.buddhistinformation.com/tibetan/what_is_tibetan_buddhism.htm

---------------

Daryl please write each of these websites and complain about the use
of an Astral body in the same way you did to us. This will show us your
concern was dharmic and not hate-speech against Zen Master Rama.
Personally I think Daryl's astral ignorance is just a front for his
hatred and religious intolerance. He just wants to attack Zen Master
Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz. He will never write the above three sources,
he doesn't care about dharma.

Daryl if your concern of Astral Bodies are dharmic, please email these
web-sites the same complaints and post for us the results.

Daryl's photo will be in the wikipedia under "Buddhist Poser".

Namaste.
Ch'an Fu
2005-11-03 22:46:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
By all means don't listen to Daryl!
Perish the thought!
Messer Xin
2005-11-04 02:36:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@yahoo.com
By all means don't listen to Daryl!
By all means, fellow seekers, don't listen to Daryl or "merely believe"
his foolish words. Daryl doesn't understand Buddhism, so there is no
reason to waste your time going to ten buddhist temples and making a
fool of yourself over the Buddhist poser Daryl.
The Astral, Etheric, Energy body is well known in Buddhism.
Daryl should star in a new movie "Buddhist Poser" or maybe "40-Year Old
Buddhist Virgin."
--------------------
Then Mahamati said to the Blessed One [buddha]: You have spoken of an
astral-body, a "mind-vision-body" (manomayakaya) which the Bodhisattvas
are able to assume, as being one of the fruits of self-realization of
Noble Wisdom: pray tell us, Blessed One, what is meant by such a
transcendental body?
http://www.onelittleangel.com/wisdom/quotes/philo.asp?mc=22
As the sort of previous lifetimes memory fade a bit, and it can take a
few days or a week or two, because you are continuously in this dream
state, then the more deeper energy you have about yourself starts to
predominate. If you have a deep identity with being a woman, then you
will have feminine astral body. If you have a deep identity as being a
make, then a male body.
http://www.buddhistconsulting.com/Teachings/basics2.html
Tibetan yoga employs a simplified version of the metaphysical structure
that is used in Hindu yoga. According to the Tibetan scheme there are
three realms to consider in spiritual practice. These correspond to the
Emanation Body (this world), the Enjoyment Body (the astral dimension),
and the Truth Body (a dimension that is much deeper--that is, much more
subtle--than the astral).
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/tibetan/what_is_tibetan_buddhism.htm
---------------
Daryl please write each of these websites and complain about the use
of an Astral body in the same way you did to us. This will show us your
concern was dharmic and not hate-speech against Zen Master Rama.
Personally I think Daryl's astral ignorance is just a front for his
hatred and religious intolerance. He just wants to attack Zen Master
Rama, Dr. Frederick Lenz. He will never write the above three sources,
he doesn't care about dharma.
Daryl if your concern of Astral Bodies are dharmic, please email these
web-sites the same complaints and post for us the results.
Daryl's photo will be in the wikipedia under "Buddhist Poser".
Namaste.
So you are trying to say that manomayakaya = sambhogakaya = astral body?

Wowzer! Pretty slick!

---Messer Xin
--
Nick Mancuso's character "Stingray" said it best when he was asked
by a stranger in need, "Why are you helping me?"
His response, "Because all we have are each other."
And that's the gospel truth. ---Bernie Cozier
m***@aol.com
2005-11-04 02:41:47 UTC
Permalink
Xin,

What is sound of your brain fartng?
m***@aol.com
2005-11-04 02:53:04 UTC
Permalink
The Kaya's are available to anyone who reads books on Buddhism,
or use Google for the spiritually lazy
Ch'an Fu
2005-11-04 02:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@aol.com
The Kaya's are available to anyone who reads books on Buddhism,
or use Google for the spiritually lazy
zzzzzzzz......
Messer Xin
2005-11-04 18:30:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@aol.com
The Kaya's are available to anyone who reads books on Buddhism,
or use Google for the spiritually lazy
What about the kayas before they're available? How many do you have, by the
way?

---Messer Xin
--
Anonymity (and losing all hope) is freedom.
Best wishes,
Kirsten Bayes
Messer Xin
2005-11-04 18:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@aol.com
Xin,
What is sound of your brain fartng?
Only this.
--
Anonymity (and losing all hope) is freedom.
Best wishes,
Kirsten Bayes
r***@yahoo.com
2005-11-03 23:01:27 UTC
Permalink
1. Darly...you fool:

Tibetan yoga employs a simplified version of the metaphysical structure
that is used in Hindu yoga. According to the Tibetan scheme there are
three realms to consider in spiritual practice. These correspond to the
Emanation Body ( this world ), the Enjoyment Body ( the astral
dimension ), and the Truth Body ( a dimension that is much deeper--that
is, much more subtle--than the astral ).

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~greg.c/tibet.html

2. Daryl you bore:

How you think and feel creates the astral body that you have in the
intermediate state. As the sort of previous lifetimes memory fade a
bit, and it can take a few days or a week or two, because you are
continuously in this dream state, then the more deeper energy you have
about yourself starts to predominate. If you have a deep identity with
being a woman, then you will have feminine astral body. If you have a
deep identity as being a make, then a male body. Then actually a few
other things come in.

http://www.buddhistconsulting.com/Teachings/basics2.html

3. Daryl you Stupid Buddhist Poser:

Then Mahamati said to the Blessed One (Buddha): You have spoken of an
astral-body, a "mind-vision-body" (manomayakaya) which the Bodhisattvas
are able to assume, as being one of the fruits of self-realization of
Noble Wisdom: pray tell us, Blessed One, what is meant by such a
transcendental body?

http://www.onelittleangel.com/wisdom/quotes/philo.asp?mc=22


Folks don't waste your time going to ten monastaries for Daryl. He
knows nothing of Buddhism. Just another room troll and poser and
probably 40-year old virgin.

Namaste.

Maybe in a future life you will learn about the "manomayakaya", have
fun Daryl...
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